NEWS The Not So Friendly Skies....

[armada1651]

I do realize that. I don't agree with the utilitarian viewpoint on this one. You're saying that every single person on that other flight was more important that this guy.

A person on a completely different flight should not be affected by the airline's poor planning.


Skeds, try harder. Plan X amount of seats for deadheads. Don't need them? Fill them with standby passengers.

No, I'm saying that 1 (or 4) people chosen randomly to be delayed is better than the hundreds of people affected by a flight being canceled for lack of crew.

And "skeds trying harder" is not going to fix this. Surely you understand that unexpected things happen in aviation ALL THE TIME. And everyone paying significantly more for every flight so we can have empty seats and avoid the 1 in 20000 chance of being involuntarily bumped (and compensated) is just stupid. You're literally arguing for less efficiency.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

I do realize that. I don't agree with the utilitarian viewpoint on this one. You're saying that every single person on that other flight was more important that this guy.

A person on a completely different flight should not be affected by the airline's poor planning.


Skeds, try harder. Plan X amount of seats for deadheads. Don't need them? Fill them with standby passengers.

It's not just a utilitarian viewpoint, but also a business viewpoint. Would you as a business owner want to disatisfy and pay for compensation for 4 passengers or 75-150? Your call.

 

[HAL Pilot]

All these "fixes" you guys are recommending will just increase the ticket prices.

Why do airlines charge all the extra fees like checked baggage, etc.? Because the public doesn't want to pay the actual price of flying. They want the cheapest "fare". But they are willing to pay extra "fees" as long as they get the cheap "fare". It's hilarious.

Planes break, weather gets bad and crews get sick. There are always going to be last minute unplanned crews needing to deadhead.

Reserve a few seats per flight? The cost of those seats is added to what pax pay.

Get rid of oversold flights? Airlines will add to the price of everyone's ticket to ensure they don't lose money from no shows. Change fees will be even higher too.

The public wants mass transit in the skies for cheap. You get what you pay for.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

I always thought that passengers who get bumped were the last to check in, in order. Was that never a thing?

 

[HAL Pilot]

I think that is true if you haven't checked in when the plane is boarding. But if everyone has already checked in prior to boarding they have to have some system. What it is, I haven't a clue.

 

[Randy Daytona]

All these "fixes" you guys are recommending will just increase the ticket prices.

Why do airlines charge all the extra fees like checked baggage, etc.? Because the public doesn't want to pay the actual price of flying. They want the cheapest "fare". But they are willing to pay extra "fees" as long as they get the cheap "fare". It's hilarious.

Planes break, weather gets bad and crews get sick. There are always going to be last minute unplanned crews needing to deadhead.

Reserve a few seats per flight? The cost of those seats is added to what pax pay.

Get rid of oversold flights? Airlines will add to the price of everyone's ticket to ensure they don't lose money from no shows. Change fees will be even higher too.

The public wants mass transit in the skies for cheap. You get what you pay for.

Basically what you are saying is I am not buying a ticket. I am buying a lottery with a high percentage of getting a seat.

As a number of financial articles have written, why not an auction until the someone gives up a seat? As one newspaper put it:

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/12/a-simple-way-to-ease-the-pain-of-airline-overbooking/

...up to $1,300....That’s an improvement, but the amounts are still too low. For many passengers, being bumped is far worse than an inconvenience. It means that they will miss a wedding, a family celebration, the start of a romantic vacation or an important business meeting that cannot be rescheduled. (I know two people who were involuntarily bumped from a flight that was supposed to begin their only vacation of the year — and who could not find any alternative flight during the relevant week.)

True, $650 and $1,300 are a lot of money, but for some passengers, those amounts are not nearly enough. What’s worse, many airlines do not offer cash compensation unless passengers explicitly demand it; instead, they just give people the same voucher given to those who are voluntarily bumped.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

^^ I don't think auctioning seats off is the right answer either. That would entice airlines to overbook even more seats and offers zero compnsation for the inconvenience of being bumped. Horrible idea.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

So for the airline bubbas what ability does a Pax have reclama being bumped? Every traveler obviously has some place to get to but what about those with an actual need to get someplace be it work related, family, etc? Traveling on orders as Mil is an obvious way to show you have a real need but what if you have some other life event on the other end without the benefit of orders, doc note, etc?

I got bumped from a regional dash 8 out of New Bern, NC when I was headed to SERE. I told them that I was on orders and they went into the plane, took someone off, and put me in their seat. I don't know if that's actually a thing, but it worked that time. Sorry, other dude.

 

[Swanee]

No, I'm saying that 1 (or 4) people chosen randomly to be delayed is better than the hundreds of people affected by a flight being canceled for lack of crew.

And "skeds trying harder" is not going to fix this. Surely you understand that unexpected things happen in aviation ALL THE TIME. And everyone paying significantly more for every flight so we can have empty seats and avoid the 1 in 20000 chance of being involuntarily bumped (and compensated) is just stupid. You're literally arguing for less efficiency.

No. I'm arguing that everyone loses when we find it acceptable to think of people as nothing more than a number.

 

[sevenhelmet]

I got bumped from a regional dash 8 out of New Bern, NC when I was headed to SERE. I told them that I was on orders and they went into the plane, took someone off, and put me in their seat. I don't know if that's actually a thing, but it worked that time. Sorry, other dude.

I've heard that it is. Never had to play that card, though.

 

[armada1651]

No. I'm arguing that everyone loses when we find it acceptable to think of people as nothing more than a number.

 

[BigRed389]

I've heard that it is. Never had to play that card, though.

IIRC, has something to do with Govt contract with airlines specifically to avoid that kind of shit...it's why the cheapest flight isn't always the flight preferred when booking through DTS.

No, I'm saying that 1 (or 4) people chosen randomly to be delayed is better than the hundreds of people affected by a flight being canceled for lack of crew.

And "skeds trying harder" is not going to fix this. Surely you understand that unexpected things happen in aviation ALL THE TIME. And everyone paying significantly more for every flight so we can have empty seats and avoid the 1 in 20000 chance of being involuntarily bumped (and compensated) is just stupid. You're literally arguing for less efficiency.

Understand the need for it.
But make the process transparent, especially for infrequent flyers.
And finally, ensure you follow your own policy/contract to the letter of the law.
More like "LegalO try harder."

 

[BACONATOR]

IIRC, has something to do with Govt contract with airlines specifically to avoid that kind of shit...it's why the cheapest flight isn't always the flight preferred when booking through DTS.



Understand the need for it.
But make the process transparent, especially for infrequent flyers.
And finally, ensure you follow your own policy/contract to the letter of the law.
More like "LegalO try harder."

It also helps that the government pays the Y-fare (full rate) for tickets. Not only is a ticket like that as good as cash and fully changeable/refundable, but they are likely going to keep that fare onboard at all costs (if not required by contract) over a dude who bought the cheap deal fare off expedia.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

He didn't have to agree to terms and conditions by buying a ticket. The airline has every right to bump him, and they aren't required to offer more compensation than what is required by law. The dipshit that got dragged off the plane is 100% in the wrong legally.

Having said that, United might want to be more careful about actually allowing people to board before bumping them, to avoid damaging situations like this.

except that what the attorney (who specializes in aviation legal disputes) that my local TV station had look at the contract said that the contract says they can bump paying customers for other paying customers, they weren't being bumped for paying customers as their contract says, they were being bumped for non-paying employees, that makes it the fault of the airline, if you go with the attorney who reviewed the contract says.

My bet is there ends up being a claim then lawsuit against United.

 

[villanelle]

I think legislation forbidding overbooking is a terrible idea (and wouldn't have helped in this particular situation anyway). But changing what can or even must be required to compensate an involuntarily bumped passenger? Absolutely. For starters, it's asinine that there is a legal limit. If the airline wants to offer $10,000 to get someone off the plane, they should be allowed to do so. I assume the limit was put in place to protect the airlines from anyone expecting them to go that high because they have the ceiling set by the law to use an an excuse, but I think that's an appropriate cost of doing business. I wouldn't find it inappropriate is a law required the airlines to keep bidding until they had enough takers. And would enough people really hold out for amounts over $1350 that it would meaningfully increase ticket prices? That seems unlikely.