Son of a Grunt
Member
Oh yeh, I though that you would like to know that I have a 4.0.
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The Great Universal Health Care Debate w/Poll (note: it just passed both houses)
- Thread starter QuagmireMcGuire
- Start date
QuagmireMcGuire
Kinder and Gentler
QuagmireMcGuire
Kinder and Gentler
But do you plan on going to college? Because I will get you then! And I will want weekly progress reports.
Son of a Grunt
Member
Good grief, this isn't about you or me being charitable or lending a hand. This is about redistribution of wealth: take from the rich forcefully to help the poor (or so called poor). It isn't charity when you or the government takes from me to give to someone else, it's stealing.
Surprise, surprise - statistics prove opinions. Junior...look for a little less biased info source for your alarmist propoganda...
MSNBC = for profit.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004393.html = Not for profit. Note the extremely lower infant mortality rates. Oh, and the higher life expectancy. I hate when I'm right.
QuagmireMcGuire
Kinder and Gentler
Pay as you go? So, you expect the individual who lives check to check (most Americans during this time) to be able to possess the funds at hand when an emergency arises? I have yet to schedule my throat infection but I will make sure to do so in the future so that it arrives around the first of the month.
Once again, being healthy- the ability to live- should not be an entitlement. This should be a basic fundamental human right. If you are dying of kidney failure, you should expect to receive quality treatment. Last month, I found a lump in my breast. I have health insurance. I wasn't concerned about whether or not the lump was cancerous. I was concerned about whether or not my insurance would cover cancer treatment and if it didn't, how would I pay for it. Luckily, it was just an infection.
No public education?? >falling out of chair<
Conspiracy theory alert.
No private insurance company will last for long, because profits will disappear and only the monolithic federal gov't which has mastered the art of operating at loss will survive.
Your auto insurance analogy is a red herring b/c a great percentage of drivers have no insurance, hence uninsured motorist coverage (which is another completely ridiculous rip-off).
So, from what I'm seeing from these arguments for UHC, because I am an individual who cares for the well being of others, I should gladly want to pay more to insure everyone else in this great country? Well, how about this, my house insurance quintupled the month before I deployed back to Iraq, how about all of you fork up some $ to pay for that? Is that ok? I mean, it is my fault for living in a flood zone, in Hurricane Alley, but you're okay with paying for it, right? And my car insurance, so mine costs more to insure, you can cover that, too, right? Oh, I eat McDs everyday, smoke a carton a day, and willingly expose myself to hazardous waste for fun. You're going to cover those health insurance costs, aren't ya? Cause you're all so nice, and I don't have to pay any more for it than you do. Bullshit, it's called personal responsibility. The Constitution gives you the right to be an idiot and fail to fund your healthcare. It also gives me the right to tell you F#$* off if you think I'm paying for all your mistakes. Socialism is a curse that drags human societies into a morass of no individual rights, a severe lack of freedoms, and creates a stifling class system with no individual mobility. The land of opportunity is NOT the land of equalization. Excessive taxation and government generated equality are the tenants of Communism. If you want that kind of life, go live with these guys' followers. They're into UHC in a big way
Attachments
Yet you expect to receive a service. but not have the capacity to pay for it?
And don't give me that payday to payday nonsense. That is a choice too.
Genuine emergencies should be financed w/in the doctor's office.
Yeah, I paid $3000 in public education taxes this year to my county. Yet my kids have not stepped one foot in public school. My choice.
Figure the Feds finance 80-90 percent that's 30k per child. If people knew how much they were already paying for this service, the idea wouldn't seem very funny.
Tactical387
New Member
I am surprised by most of your outlooks on universal health care. First of all, socialized health care is not going to make the U.S. a communist country. One of the most democratic countries in the world, Germany, has socialized medicine. In fact, we take for granted many "socialistic" things that the government already does. Public schools and emergency management are some of the better examples.
Next seems to be the resistance of some to pay for this health care system which will be "too expensive". It is prudent to note that the United States spends about 40 percent more per capita than the most expensive European countries with socialized health care. Also, are some really endowed with the right to be healthy and therefore wealthy? or do we believe that some good, intelligent, wealthy people get sick for no reason and are then "thrown to the curb" as it were in terms of health care.
As for the arguement that people will somehow care less for their health if they do not have to pay for health care- again the statistics of universal health care systems would tend to dispute that. The countries with univeral health care actually have healthier citizens due to an emphasis on preventative medicine. For example, Canadian citizens have an average of a 3 year longer life span than the United States, which is also the fattest country in the world. Just for perspective purposes, the United States also ranks in at a whopping 67 of all developed and developing countries in immunizations right behind Botswana. The United States also has one of the worst infant mortality rates of any developed country, ranking 23rd lowest. Experts will say that infant mortality is one of the best indicators of health care in a country.
More than some of these things, it is simply a humanistic issue. Is it really fair to turn a blind eye to those citizens with chronic conditions, such as HIV or various types of cancer, who will often either get turned down for health insurance or have to pay exuberant premiums? If it was someone in your family, I am almost certain that you would embrace this health care system. In fact the only valid arguement about socialized health care is that the doctors will get paid less. As a pre-med student, I have no agenda on this issue. I believe that there are more important things than money, but it is not like socialized medical doctors are poor. Most European doctors under governmental health care average the equivalent of 200-300 thousand dollars a year, and get all types of bonuses as a result of working for the government. This may be less than some private practice doctors make, but there is in fact room for promotion based on the overall health of patients. Overall, it is not socialized health care that is irrational in a post-modern society, but a lack of it.
Next seems to be the resistance of some to pay for this health care system which will be "too expensive". It is prudent to note that the United States spends about 40 percent more per capita than the most expensive European countries with socialized health care. Also, are some really endowed with the right to be healthy and therefore wealthy? or do we believe that some good, intelligent, wealthy people get sick for no reason and are then "thrown to the curb" as it were in terms of health care.
As for the arguement that people will somehow care less for their health if they do not have to pay for health care- again the statistics of universal health care systems would tend to dispute that. The countries with univeral health care actually have healthier citizens due to an emphasis on preventative medicine. For example, Canadian citizens have an average of a 3 year longer life span than the United States, which is also the fattest country in the world. Just for perspective purposes, the United States also ranks in at a whopping 67 of all developed and developing countries in immunizations right behind Botswana. The United States also has one of the worst infant mortality rates of any developed country, ranking 23rd lowest. Experts will say that infant mortality is one of the best indicators of health care in a country.
More than some of these things, it is simply a humanistic issue. Is it really fair to turn a blind eye to those citizens with chronic conditions, such as HIV or various types of cancer, who will often either get turned down for health insurance or have to pay exuberant premiums? If it was someone in your family, I am almost certain that you would embrace this health care system. In fact the only valid arguement about socialized health care is that the doctors will get paid less. As a pre-med student, I have no agenda on this issue. I believe that there are more important things than money, but it is not like socialized medical doctors are poor. Most European doctors under governmental health care average the equivalent of 200-300 thousand dollars a year, and get all types of bonuses as a result of working for the government. This may be less than some private practice doctors make, but there is in fact room for promotion based on the overall health of patients. Overall, it is not socialized health care that is irrational in a post-modern society, but a lack of it.
Oh dear God, Miss America. You DO derive self-satisfaction from it whether you want to admit it's diminishing painful looks or not. Otherwise you wouldn't do it. It's human nature to do things that make us feel good.
Good grief. Tell me those who would have above the government minimum if this were the case...it's nightmarish to consider we let enough people into this country who don't pay taxes or even have a damn Social Security Number and then expect them to actually pay for what they deserve...
As we all do. Is it so wrong to expect them to come to your rescue...what the hell is so wrong with you that you've made a risk decision and then don't want to accept the consequences of said decision.
How old are you? This is like arguing with my wife...sometimes she just dosn't want to think logically...
QuagmireMcGuire
Kinder and Gentler
First, please don't ever call me Junior again.
Second, your posting of information does nothing to negate my point. I stated we have the lowest of infant mortality and life expectancy rate (Ireland scores lower on this one) in comparison with other industrialized countries:
US 6.4
UK 5.0
Japan 3.2
Canada 4.6
Ireland 5.2
Italy 5.7
Switzerland 4.3
France 4.2
Life Expectancy:
US 78.0
UK 78.7
Japan 81.4
Canada 80.3
Ireland 77.9
Italy 79.9
Switzerland 80.6
France 79.9
All of these numbers taken from your link, notice how the US is behind the UK, France, and Japan in regards to infant mortality. In case you don't understand what it is saying, it means that out of every thousand births, 6.4 American children die in comparison to only 5.2 in the UK.
So before you continue with your self-congralutory tone, perhaps you should regroup and introduce something new.
Tactical387
New Member
It is interesting that in this website, the United States has in fact the highest infant mortality and lowest life expectancy rate of any developed country. From looking at this for a few minutes, I am pretty sure that every single country listed higher than the United States in these statistics have socialized medicine. Also, there are alot more than 51 countries. In fact around 4 times that many.