I am just wondering what is wrong with taking pride in looking professional when in uniform (especially when there are enlisted sailors/Marines around) and why if we rightfully jump on a junior Marine for being out of uniform it is scorned to correct a peer?...I have seen some Ensigns who were just completely jacked up, and a couple Marines too mind you...
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The Great Flight Jacket Thread (wearing/buying Leather, NOMEX, WEP jackets/patches)
- Thread starter Lt_SNA_USMC
- Start date
jamnww said:
ah but there's a big difference between being completely "jacked up" (please let me know if i missed a button in front or my gig line is all wrong) and a button on my rear that no one cares about. I'd go crazy walking around the exchange pointing out every single little deficiency if I was like that.
The point is, it was a bit much.
rare21 said:
That button, yeah, may be a bit much...grant that...
Case I was thinking about was an Ensign who had IPs on his flight suit that you could repel from and got all pissed off when a Marine told him he should trim them down a bit...they were clearly visible...
jamnww said:
If there is ever a reg that should be enforced on flight suits is the amount of time that goes by before you need to wash it. Man I've smelt some bad ones. I had one instructor that had a very prominent aroma. In three different briefs within a span of 4 months he always smelled the same, I doubt he washed it within that time.
rare21 said:
Yeah, the TBS assembly line produces all makes and models. I agree, the A&M patch guy was probably trying to impress somebody (kissass, anyone?), maybe he was an Aggie himself. But I'd much rather have somebody closer to that end of the spectrum than the other Lt's walking around here with one hand holding a cell phone to their ear, the other hand deep in a pocket (all in uniform), cause "Hey, I'm an officer, none of these enlisted guys is gonna say anything to me."
Of course, seems like the first type ends up being the one we've been describing for the last page or so. If I actually had all that stuff (API shirt, super tight blue jeans, red USMC hat) I'd make a composite photo so we could revel in its...appropriateness as civilian attire.
rare21 said:
First, I'd rather have someone my own grade tell me my uniform has something amiss, rather than a superior, or even worse, getting told I'm hosed up by an enlisted Marine.
Second, why are you taking offense at being corrected? It's one thing to take issue with the oft-ludicrous civilian attire some of the super motivated wear. However, there's really only one way to wear the uniform--in accordance with the uniform regulations for your service. Maybe you didn't like his tone, but guess what? It's hard to justify moral indignation when he's right and you're wrong.
Lastly, there's always a balance to be reached. The brand-new 2ndLt Hitler Youth crowd sometimes need to realize that a horseshoe haircut does not squared-away make. Likewise, there are a lot of ensigns, and a few 2ndLts that need to learn that they aren't working at Hardee's.
In regards to civilian clothing and such, a good officer knows what parts of the military are 24/7 and what needs to be left at the office. You should uphold civilian attire standards within reason. For example, ballcaps and shower shoes don't belong in the exchange. However, I wouldn't hassle a Marine for wearing grubby work clothing when he runs into Lowes to buy more yard supplies (this happened to a friend of mine). Appropriate civilian attire does not have to be lame. I think the "Queer Eye" guys need to give a TBS and MCT inbrief, as well as a field-grade refresher course. 1st rule, uniform items stay with the uniform.
again..as i said before in my previous post, i did not take offense. the only point i was saying was that it was a bit much. if he was so motivated to point that small thing out then i hope he's going around every squadron, mess hall, exchange,etc correcting small mistakes. its all or nothing. we'll see how far that goes.
I'll stand corrected--you weren't offended. It really isn't all or nothing. To make an analogy, people will say that we shouldn't have gotten rid of Saddam because there are a lot of bad dictators and we can't take them all out. Well, you deal with the worst ones one at a time, and it's a start. Not to say that an unbuttoned button is equivalent to genocide or anything, but you're less likely to miss it again, in any case.
A staff sergeant who worked in my shop when I was a lieutenant said something that has stuck with me for awhile. "People say that Marines are all fvcked-up now. If you're complaining about it, what are you doing to change it?" If a Marine/sailor/soldier officer/enlisted is gooned up, take the time to correct him/her. Use a tone appropriate to the grade of the individual and the severity of the whatever it is, but do it. Don't see someone who's messed up and just let it be. If the person is not a complete oxygen thief, he'll appreciate the correction and probably never do it again (and will probably be harder on himself than you were). If he is one of the many who deplete the world's O2 while giving nothing in return, then fvck him, he deserves the ass-chewing.
No, I can't stop every sh!thead from wearing flip-flops in the exchange, or tell every sailor that personal cell phones don't clip on your uniform. Sometimes I am in a hurry and just deal. But usually I'll take my eyedropper and empty the swimming pool a little. Not always cool, but SNCOs and officers are supposed to be respected, not necessarily liked.
A staff sergeant who worked in my shop when I was a lieutenant said something that has stuck with me for awhile. "People say that Marines are all fvcked-up now. If you're complaining about it, what are you doing to change it?" If a Marine/sailor/soldier officer/enlisted is gooned up, take the time to correct him/her. Use a tone appropriate to the grade of the individual and the severity of the whatever it is, but do it. Don't see someone who's messed up and just let it be. If the person is not a complete oxygen thief, he'll appreciate the correction and probably never do it again (and will probably be harder on himself than you were). If he is one of the many who deplete the world's O2 while giving nothing in return, then fvck him, he deserves the ass-chewing.
No, I can't stop every sh!thead from wearing flip-flops in the exchange, or tell every sailor that personal cell phones don't clip on your uniform. Sometimes I am in a hurry and just deal. But usually I'll take my eyedropper and empty the swimming pool a little. Not always cool, but SNCOs and officers are supposed to be respected, not necessarily liked.
"First, I'd rather have someone my own grade tell me my uniform has something amiss, rather than a superior, or even worse, getting told I'm hosed up by an enlisted Marine."
As would I. But if you notice, he called him "Ensign" and not by his name, or "excuse me", or "hey". An O-1 is an O-1, I don't care who is better at shooting the grenade launcher or whether Marine officers get an "attention on deck" years before their Navy paygrade counterparts. For anyone who's seen "Zulu", it's like the officer of engineers and the infantry officer arguing about date of rank...except it's in a hallway, it doesn't make a shred of difference, and there aren't any Zulus. We Ensigns make a lot of assumptions about Second Lieutenants and sometimes we don't capitalize "sailors," whether referring to ourselves or our subordinates. But if the guy with his button undone was a jiujutsu instructor, five-time All Navy rifle shot, and had been in combat on a shore party, would the Marine dude staring at his ass still have made the same assumption? Nine times out of ten, yes. So don't call someone by their rank unless one of you is a "sir."
As would I. But if you notice, he called him "Ensign" and not by his name, or "excuse me", or "hey". An O-1 is an O-1, I don't care who is better at shooting the grenade launcher or whether Marine officers get an "attention on deck" years before their Navy paygrade counterparts. For anyone who's seen "Zulu", it's like the officer of engineers and the infantry officer arguing about date of rank...except it's in a hallway, it doesn't make a shred of difference, and there aren't any Zulus. We Ensigns make a lot of assumptions about Second Lieutenants and sometimes we don't capitalize "sailors," whether referring to ourselves or our subordinates. But if the guy with his button undone was a jiujutsu instructor, five-time All Navy rifle shot, and had been in combat on a shore party, would the Marine dude staring at his ass still have made the same assumption? Nine times out of ten, yes. So don't call someone by their rank unless one of you is a "sir."
highlyrandom said:
Why not? We all earned our ranks, so what's wrong with being addressed by our appropriate titles?
I understand that this is situation-dependant. It's kind of like phrogdriver's thoughts on what parts of our profession are "24/7." I'm not talking about addressing every butterbar you meet as "ensign" or "lieutenant," especially the ones you are familiar with, nor am I saying not to use their names when talking to them. That's just retarded.
However, until a relationship/rapport is developed, there is nothing wrong (and I would go as far as to say that it is appropriate) to address a peer by his or her rank...especially if you don't know/can't see his or her name. In fact, the first time you called him or her by rank would probably the only time you do it. That one time, though, is a sign of respect and acknowledgement that you are talking to another professional officer, and not just another guy waiting in line to use the pisser at a football game.