The Good, The Bad and The Stupid...

[skidkid]

yes but again it all goes back to waht you can get away with and waht you cant. Big populated area transponder and HUD tape are the last of your worries. The guy with a video camera on the ground is your greatest fear provided you dont hit something on the ground.

 

[Fly Navy]

As for tapes, they get lsot often, a lot of times we dont even load a tape if it isnt a tactical mission.

Or in the case of the T-45, half the time it doesn't record anything.

 

[BigIron]

San Luis Obispo is a controlled field, so I have to assume he was cleared in by at least tower. I don't know all of the details, but it appears this aviator did not use the standard "if I do this, will I make national news?" train of thought. It sounds like a pretty cool pass, but it did catch the attention of several folks. Cool or not, if the average joe civilian feels like he/she is in danger, or his/her property is in danger, or he/she thinks the aircraft is in extremis, the are going to call the news, aiport, faa, etc. Next thing LT war hero knows is that he is talking to the CO/XO/CAG/TYCOM/NCIS, etc. Here are some tidbits from the OPNAV 3710.7T. This guys might have a hard time refuting the second paragraph.

"3.3.1 Naval Aircraft Participation. Participation
of naval aircraft, other than the scheduled appearance
of the flight demonstration squadron, in any
airborne display is not encouraged and should only be
approved in the most exceptional and carefully considered
situations (e.g., occasional flights at unique
aviation related events and station open houses"

"5.1.3 Unusual Maneuvers Within Class B, C, or
D Airspace. Pilots shall not perform or request
clearance to perform unusual maneuvers within class B,
C, or D airspace if such maneuvers are not essential to
the performance of the flight. ATC personnel are not
permitted to approve a pilot’s request or ask a pilot to
perform such maneuvers. Unusual maneuvers include
unnecessary low passes, unscheduled fly-bys, climbs at
very steep angles, practice approaches to altitudes
below specific minimums (unless a landing is to be
made), or any so-called flat hatting wherein a flight is
conducted at a low altitude and/or a high rate of speed
for thrill purposes."

 

[nugget81]

From the FAR's....

Sec. 91.13
Careless or reckless operation....

If the guy did as was described, then definitely should be dewinged and probably even booted out of the Navy.

The FAA would likely place an emergency revocation order for his certificates (if he had any civilian ratings). That's revocation, not suspension. I've been working on a project dealing specifically with low level flight and careless/reckless operations, and history has shown that the FAA does not mess around with this type of thing. The odds are very much against the pilot in these types of cases. I imagine the Navy would be just as harsh as the FAA, if not more so.

 

[Gatordev]

The one saving grace of OPNAV is that the FAA can't do anything to a Naval Aviator. The only person allowed to issue a flight violation is the CNO. Nugget81, I undertand what you're saying, and yeah, I bet he would lose his civilian stuff based on what you're saying. But for the military side, he's at least safe from the FAA. However, I'm sure the CNO would have a few choice words about this if the details are correct.

 

[beau]

Do Supers have an ADR? Air Data Recorder? The 45 has one...was wondering if the same was true of Supers? They could pull all the data they wanted off that thing.

 

[mules83]

All the ones who said yank his wings.....dont look at my avatar

 

[Schnugg]

I like the part about "exiled to Qatar"...hey I'm right there, too. It ain't
prison, but close.

Hotdogging which results in a mishap tends to bring out the stories about all the stuff the pilot had already done or typically did.

Before that happens, find a senior officer in your command you can trust and raise the issue with him/her is you see any really off the wall flying stunts. I understand the not wanting to be labeled a "snitch" but I think the CO/XO will respect you for it (if it's valid of course).

Litmus test for me is would I do this in front of my CO. I went to the Reno Air Races in 94 in an F-14D. After the weekend, we were getting ready to leave. Sitting in the jet with the engines turning on the Tarmac, we watched a Hornet do a low transition, reef it up to about 45 nose up and 45 RWD and plug in Blower to run the gold air races course at 200-500'. We had seen the same pilot drinking a lot the night before.

My pilot and I sat there, gasped as he almost lost it on his violent pitch up, then said let's make our's a real gentle departure. As we were sure any FAA still around were watching by now. We just left. Nothing special and you know what? We still made a ton more noise than anything flying all weekend at the races.

Safe...and still alive...after all these years. :icon_wink

 

[A4sForever]

The Good, The Bad and The Stupid...

"DICK" was "DUMB" ... "DICK" got caught as a result .... for lessons on how to flat-hat and "be somebody" (?) ... please see (I had to copy the whole post as I don't know how to post the link to an old thread) :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from 05-22-2005 ....
Return of the Jedi?? Or the A4 ???
I don't know whether or not to put this on the Star Wars thread or here --- where the "real" stuff goes.

I think I've been doing this too long --- I even have a "Star Wars" sea-story, of sorts. No sea, actually. Just desert --- as in Yuma. 1982?? '83?? Can't remember, but it was when they were filming ... Return of the Jedi (?) --- the one with the big hole in the desert just outside of Yuma???

We were on a 2-3 plane rotating ACM det out of MCAS Yuma and launched one bright, clear, still AM on the DAWN PATROL --- 2 A4's looking for USMC F4 bear. The only catch was --- 2 of the Marine F-4's went down in the chocks and the sissy wingmen did not launch. We did not get this word until we were almost into the MOA, so we figured "what the heck" and went at each other for a couple of quick engagements -- mainly to try a couple of things -- then did a little tail-chase and then ..... boredom set in, the WX was perfect and we had gas to burn.

"Now what"? my wingman said ---- "Follow me" I replied. We dropped from 20K-something feet down onto the desert floor and started chasing coyotes, rabbits, and cactus across the dunes. Cutting back and forth across each other's "6" --- barrel-rolls up and over each other --- we were having a great time. (p.s. A man has got to know his limitations --- and we did ). But when we popped-up in preparation to re-enter the field --- there it was @ 12 O'clock: the production set of the "desert palace", for lack of a better term, of the blob --- Jabba the Hut (sp?).

I signaled straight ahead, follow me, keyed the mic and said " Break away from me" ... and my wingy nodded in acknowledgement. Stick forward, unload, PCL full forward, and the two "lightened" A4s leapt ahead pushing their way to 500 KIAS across the desert. We had heard the production cast and crew of the movie was "somewhere" out there, but this was just too good ....

We hit Jabba's palace @ about 500 knots and 50 feet, pitched up and rolled away from each other, joining back up in cruise at the end of the 360 roll. Beautiful !!! Pulled up, called approach, then tower, then hit the break, landed and taxied in ....... a couple of flashing lights on the parking ramp ---- MP's ???

The MP's "requested" we accompany them to the base C.O.'s office where the duty officer jumped up and down (literally -- the CO wasn't there) while screaming at us. We were going to get kicked off the base, sent home, lose our Wings, and then --- they were REALLY going to get mad. It seems some "wheel" from the set had called up and ratted us out for our fly-over. We tore up some of the canvas on the set, knocked over some other stuff (I doubt it) and shut down production for some indeterminate "considerable" amount of time.

We went back to the Q and said "should we pack our bags" ... or go to the pool ?? We got breakfast and went to the pool. Later that night, we went to dinner @ Cretin's (sp? pronounced Kray-teens) Mex restaurant and what did we behold --- but Billy Dee Williams and Princess Leia (Lay-uh? --- Carrie Fisher in any case) in the flesh .....

....and very nice flesh it was, may I add ....

THEY had been on the set, THEY thought it was GREAT, and as a result, THEY bought us dinner and drinks and laughed and scratched with us for the rest of the evening into the wee hours ..... no DAWN PATROL for us the next day. Never did hear another word about the fly-over, either .....

May the Force be with You ......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now THAT's how you flathat ..... any questions ???

 

[skidkid]

To recap open desert good for umm "youthful exhuberance", populated area or airport bad. Be ready to explain everything you do in an aircraft. Actresses in metal bikinis good, news crews with video cameras bad

 

[Schnugg]

Ah yes..."Youthly Puresome"

 

[East]

If I trust this guy in war-time with Guns and Bombs, I am able trust him on his judgement and knowing his limitations in peace-time.

Maverick and Goose were also reprimanded, not yanked...I bet the general public would hate to see them yanked. Top Gun (the movie) wouldn't last any longer than the first 30 min's, haha...but hey that's Hollywood! :icon_mi_1

 

[nittany03]

If I trust this guy in war-time with Guns and Bombs, I am able trust him on his judgement and knowing his limitations in peace-time.

The question comes when one's actions in peacetime merit review of whether or not you will CONTINUE to be trusted with guns and bombs during war.

 

[SteveG75]

As an NFO who has in a mid-air collision caused by a pilot doing an unauthorized manuever (which he had done before and been counselled not to repeat), I am saying that the punshment fit the crime.

15 hours, 500+ knots, <100 feet, populated area. What would have happened if he had hit some poor guy flying a 172 in the pattern or caused the Cessna to lose control and crash.

10 out of 10 for style, minus several million for common sense.

What I can't believe is that over 1/3 of us would give him another chance. I must attribute that to the lack of fleet bubba's on this board and hope I never fly with anybody that would fly with this schmuck.

 

[Ryoukai]

As an NFO who has in a mid-air collision caused by a pilot doing an unauthorized manuever (which he had done before and been counselled not to repeat), I am saying that the punshment fit the crime.

I hate to take this off topic, but how responsible, if at all, is the NFO in a situation like this? If the NFO holds rank over the pilot does that change the situation at all?