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The further decline of personal accountability...

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whitesoxnation

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
It takes all of 25 minutes, a sand bag (hell you don't even need one), and the space of a prison cell to haze yourself into shape. I'm tired of hearing that people don't have enough time, space, or equipment to PT.
 
HueyCobra8151

HueyCobra8151

Well-Known Member
pilot
whitesoxnation said:
It takes all of 25 minutes, a sand bag (hell you don't even need one), and the space of a prison cell to haze yourself into shape. I'm tired of hearing that people don't have enough time, space, or equipment to PT.
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A sand bag...what an interesting choice of word--wait a minute, you're in TBS aren't you. No one in the real world is working out with sand bags.
 
B

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
The Chief said:
Understand, different approach. Nothing more important to me. I would have never ever be without military creases (I envy the built in creases of today), spit shined shoes, gig line intact, no irish pennants, always. I expected similar from my men, but was not fanatical. But I did want the sailor to be able to drag a firehose to that buring a/c and be able to run back for a second hose. The 20 something sailor filling his pie hole with garbage and 30 to 40 pounds over weight always got my attention, and the CNO did not have to tell me that the kid was killing himself and that I should do my best to rectify. There was no PT, no PT standards and lo, not even PT uniforms.

And I would fly with you anyday, anywhere, if you would accept an old MC with a bum right knee.
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Bad knees aren't a problem in my aircraft - welcome aboard! And you are absolutely right that the uniform itself ought to be squared away. It would have been better to say that I don't care what a sailor's body looks like in uniform. If they are in standards then that is good enough.

Personally, I would never use PRT scores or looks to break out Sailors or J.O.'s. I can't say I've ever run across a situation where I had to dig down that deep for a tie-breaker between two people's performance.
 
E

exhelodrvr

Well-Known Member
pilot
A4sForever said:
Naaaaaaaahhh ... you have absolutely NO way of knowing that ... and the 'proof was in the puddin' as the guys I'm talkin' about were 4.0 sailors (on the job). How can you get any 'better' than that ... ??? THEY are just the kine' sailor I want to arm me, shoot me off the pointy end, and brush, water & feed my mount when I return.

Gosh. I think this is the first time we've disagreed on something. I think I hate myself. :)
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There have been all kinds of studies that show that improved physical fitness improves overall job performance, even if the work involved is not of a physical nature. That includes 4.0 sailors. And in the Navy, you never know when you're going to be fighting fires or carrying wounded up ladders or lugging around pumps to drain flooded compartments, no matter what your rate/position is. As others have noted, that doesn't mean that someone who is fit is better than someone who isn't.
 
E

exhelodrvr

Well-Known Member
pilot
bert said:
Nope. I'm asking a specific question here. I'm never going to run a sub 3:00 hour marathon again like I could in my 20's (no amount of desire is going to change that). But would you rather fly with with my old, admittedly broken down self as I am now or a LT who can max out the PRT?

Do you seriously think that (assuming I could get an up-chit afterwards) knee replacement surgery would make me a better pilot?

Personally, I couldn't give a rat's ass what somebody looks like in uniform, or how many sit ups they can do, or whether or not they can touch their toes. Show me how well they can do their assigned jobs and that I will care about.
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By that line of thinking, which has some validity to it, they should not make O-4s retire at 20 years. Keep them in, and flying, and bring in fewer ensigns.

The point is that people are better pilots if they are in good physical condition than if they aren't. And so the Navy benefits from people being in better shape. At what point do they force someone out as a result? Hard to say.
 
A4sForever

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
exhelodrvr said:
There have been all kinds of studies that show....
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I don't care about 'studies' ... only reality.

The E-Men I'm referring to were 4.0 Airmen. Skinny, fat, tall, or short -- didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now. How they performed mattered.

It was my pleasure to serve with them. It was my good fortune to have them maintain my aircraft. I ran into some of them in the airlines. I'd roll w/ them anyday, anyway ...

Fuck the 'studies' and the people who sit in offices and do them.
 
B

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
exhelodrvr said:
By that line of thinking, which has some validity to it, they should not make O-4s retire at 20 years. Keep them in, and flying, and bring in fewer ensigns.

The point is that people are better pilots if they are in good physical condition than if they aren't. And so the Navy benefits from people being in better shape. At what point do they force someone out as a result? Hard to say.
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Honestly, I've just been kind of poking at this thread for fun. The nature of our jobs (and many of the Navy's jobs, for that matter) simply do not require any advanced physical fitness, no matter how much appeal that a higher standard holds for a lot of you. For all the scorn the Navy's PRT/body composition requirements are getting in this thread, they are in fact good enough (and in many cases more than good enough) for 99%+ of the Navy's billets, even with the recent, and probably temporary, advent of IA's.

And the reason you have to bring those ensigns in is because it takes a long time to get a new production pilot to the level of the old farts, and though retention at the 20 year point varies with economic conditions and the jobs available both in and out of the Navy, the fact is a lot of us can't be convinced to stay past the minimum obligation, let alone retirement eligibility at 20. This is another area where a lot of our allies think differently - they work to keep their experienced pilots in the cockpit so that they don't have to train as many new ones. That isn't compatible with our Navy's present mentality of "everybody push towards being a squadron CO and disappear once you are off that track or complete that CO tour" approach, but who knows what we would decide the best approach is if we did a study or two...

Edit: Just read the last line of A4's post, so I wanted to clarify I'm not volunteering to do the study myself...
 
helolumpy

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
exhelodrvr said:
There have been all kinds of studies that show that improved physical fitness improves overall job performance, even if the work involved is not of a physical nature.
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While I am not debating your assertion, would you please cite the studies you are referring to?
 
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whitesoxnation

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
HueyCobra8151 said:
A sand bag...what an interesting choice of word--wait a minute, you're in TBS aren't you. No one in the real world is working out with sand bags.
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Lol no. We did some PT at TBS with sandbags though, and it was pretty killer. Run to the top of cardio hill with an e-tool and an empty sand bag in your pack, fill the sandbag up, switch packs with another person (because... you know), and run back.

Not as bad as the OEOEO in flak that some people claimed to do.

I was just making a point that you dont need a Golds membership to stay in shape.
 
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