The further decline of personal accountability...

[phrogpilot73]

Do Marine units doing same workups ensure they give their Marines time to PT? Navy commands operationally stressed generally don't (along with time at home, weekends, etc.) b/c as Brett said, it's at the bottom of the pile of priorities. Especially when the people making decisions have PT requirements half that of their junior guys.

Do you mean "Hey guys, it's now your scheduled PT time?" If so, no. Our workups are pretty strenuous, and guys fit it in on their own schedule. Some guys do it at the ass crack of dawn (before work), some guys do it in lieu of lunch (and snack throughout the day), and some guys do it after work. Short of a Battalion/Squadron PT event (during workups they are EXTREMELY RARE), it's all your personal responsibility to get it done.

 

[Gatordev]

Our workups are pretty strenuous, and guys fit it in on their own schedule. ...it's all your personal responsibility to get it done.

Personal responsibility? Crazy talk! Someone should make a thread about that! So here's where reality rears it's ugly head. The service that "prides" itself on it's fitness doesn't have dedicated PT. The service that doesn't pride itself requires dedicated time be made 3 times a week for Seaman Timmy.

Brett's on target for the Navy side. I know it's a small sample size, but I'm guessing Phrog is explaining how it's done on the Marine side.

My personal favorite: being told the troops complain when we do away with organized PT for operational reasons. Then being told that the troops are complaining when we extend the day so we can fit in organized PT.

 

[BigIron]

My personal favorite: being told the troops complain when we do away with organized PT for operational reasons. Then being told that the troops are complaining when we extend the day so we can fit in organized PT.

Exactly.

 

[BigRed389]

Do you mean "Hey guys, it's now your scheduled PT time?" If so, no. Our workups are pretty strenuous, and guys fit it in on their own schedule. Some guys do it at the ass crack of dawn (before work), some guys do it in lieu of lunch (and snack throughout the day), and some guys do it after work. Short of a Battalion/Squadron PT event (during workups they are EXTREMELY RARE), it's all your personal responsibility to get it done.

Gotcha. The MCTAG guys we worked told us they PT'd until lunch.

Navy EOD units in this area also take most of the morning for that as well.

So I'll say it's more impressive Marines can maintain a higher standard.

 

[KBayDog]

Don't really have a dog in this fight...

I appreciate your sentiment and agree in principle that all of our Sailors ought to be in top physical form, but that ignores the reality of the other demands that are placed on squadrons. Bottom line, there just isn't enough time to devote to fitness when we're expecting that all of the other requirements get done. I don't know how recently you've had go through a set of work-ups and deployment, but to say that it's an aggressive schedule would be putting it lightly. How does a Skipper ask his people to bust their asses for 14+ hours a day, 6-7 days a week, dets to the boat, dets to Fallon, cruise, then do it all over again and OBTW ask them to remember to PT five times a week so they can add part time athlete to their evals. Ain't gonna happen. I suspect that unless you've been a DH or CO, you probably can't appreciate the juggling that goes on so that a squadron can meet its operational commitments. Ensuring that Airman Jones' PFA score goes from SAT to EXCELLENT is about #327 on the list of things a CO cares about. That is the reality we live in.

Brett

...but it's difficult to fit PT in when you're training so hard to be a "." (Your motto, not mine...)

 

[scoolbubba]

Who has time for PT. I'm pretty busy with my homo sensitivity training, my alcohol awareness course, and the 5 hour GMTs I need to do to be allowed to use the computers to continue my general military training. Oh yea, I've gotta do my trafficking in persons training...again.

I think I'm supposed to fly, too? Might just be a collateral duty, though.

 

[helolumpy]

Don't really have a dog in this fight...



...but it's difficult to fit PT in when you're training so hard to be a "." (Your motto, not mine...)

Besides, you get great PT fighting a lava monster

(Sorry, had to stick up for my service)

 

[KBayDog]

Besides, you get great PT fighting a lava monster

(Sorry, had to stick up for my service)

 

[Swanee]

Besides, you get great PT fighting a lava monster

(Sorry, had to stick up for my service)

That commercial has been updated to reflect current times.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Gotcha. The MCTAG guys we worked told us they PT'd until lunch.

I wouldn't include them in the sample size. They're HARDLY the pointy edge of the spear, and they're also a relatively new command that's still looking for "rudder steers" so they've got a bunch of free time on their hand.

Normally, a garrison Infantry Battalion does jack and shit all day. When they're doing workups, it's a different story. As a dude in the BLT for the MEU, we were working 11-12 hours a day, 5-6 days a week. Guys in the squadron attached to the MEU? 14-16 hour days, 6 days a week. There's a reason I bought a bowflex after my first MEU deployment.

 

[HAL Pilot]

You guys are forgeting one of the core axioms I was taught when I first joined the Naval Aviation brotherhood...

If the minimums aren't good enough, than they wouldn't be the minimums.

 

[Brett327]

message edited / deleted. hearing mom in the back of my head...if you can't say something nice...... Bottom line - Lots of folks with high optempos - working as many hours as you imply (and I don't doubt) requires little time for PT - just a little discipline to push away from the table. I'm an example.

Does my experience level qualify me to have an opinion?

Sure, you can have your opinion, but I should think that your capacity for sympathy and understanding as a CAG staffer with that arduous "Det Whidbey" work environment might be just slightly askew.

Brett

 

[wlawr005]

I appreciate your sentiment and agree in principle that all of our Sailors ought to be in top physical form, but that ignores the reality of the other demands that are placed on squadrons. Bottom line, there just isn't enough time to devote to fitness when we're expecting that all of the other requirements get done. I don't know how recently you've had go through a set of work-ups and deployment, but to say that it's an aggressive schedule would be putting it lightly. How does a Skipper ask his people to bust their asses for 14+ hours a day, 6-7 days a week, dets to the boat, dets to Fallon, cruise, then do it all over again and OBTW ask them to remember to PT five times a week so they can add part time athlete to their evals. Ain't gonna happen. I suspect that unless you've been a DH or CO, you probably can't appreciate the juggling that goes on so that a squadron can meet its operational commitments. Ensuring that Airman Jones' PFA score goes from SAT to EXCELLENT is about #327 on the list of things a CO cares about. That is the reality we live in.

Brett

When the HSC aircrew were still rated maintainers, we usually carried about 70% of the squadrons maintenance quals along with our flight quals. Add the DET concept to that and there is no doubt that we were strained to meet operational requirements. Fast forward to the new HSC(exp) where the AW's work in OPS/NATOPS/etc, life got a whole lot easier and we were actually able to schedule workouts for the swimmers along with pool training and live SAREX flights.

It was difficult to balance all of those things, and physical fitness was usually one of the first things to slip out the door. We had swimmers that could barely complete a PRT, much less conduct a difficult rescue mission. As you say, such is life in Naval Aviation. It doesn't take an oak leaf on your shoulder to understand the complications of managing flight operations, money, and man hours. My point is that I would like to see Jones' PRT score move from #327 to top 10. I personally feel that the discipline and toughness PT gives you coupled with the benefits of a healthy lifestyle and stress mitigation afforded by a good PT regimen is as important to our sailor's development as quals and quarterly flight hours.

I don't care how many hours you work in a day, everybody has 30 minutes to do something good for themselves 2-3 times a week. I don't advocate every sailor competing in an ultra-marathon, but a 15 week (or whatever it is) notice for the semi-annual PRT? Give me a break. People should be able to pass the PRT with less than 48 hours notice.

 

[KBayDog]

that commercial has been updated to reflect current times

troof!

 

[fattestfoot]

My point is that I would like to see Jones' PRT score move from #327 to top 10. I personally feel that the discipline and toughness PT gives you coupled with the benefits of a healthy lifestyle and stress mitigation afforded by a good PT regimen is as important to our sailor's development as quals and quarterly flight hours.

I don't care how many hours you work in a day, everybody has 30 minutes to do something good for themselves 2-3 times a week. I don't advocate every sailor competing in an ultra-marathon, but a 15 week (or whatever it is) notice for the semi-annual PRT? Give me a break. People should be able to pass the PRT with less than 48 hours notice.

Coming from the Army side, I always thought our PT test was kind of misguided. I did three deployments to Iraq, and never once would the ability to run 2 miles have been useful. Being able to hump 50+ lbs for a few hours on the other hand? Invaluable. The Army apparently realized that the PT standards were out of whack too, and they've just recently decided to revamp the PT test. It went from a 2 mile run, situps, and pushups, to 1.5 mile run, pushups, rowers (essentially situps), suicides, and long jump(???). While I agree that physical fitness is important for the military services, in the 21st century I don't believe it's as crucial as it once was.