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the AV-8B Harrier II

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dividebyzero

Registered User
I'm not sure where to begin with my questions about this aircraft.

It's always been one of my favorites, by it's sheer unique capabilities alone, but as far as I can tell, hasn't been used anywhere near as extensively as other platforms?

Maybe,and hopefully, I'm wrong. But, also, I do hear that the Harrier's tend to be notorious for catastrophic mechanical failures and accidents. Any merit to this?
 

riley

Registered User
Yes, I had lunch with two Harrier pilots last Monday - lets just say they weren't forthcoming with praise. Ever heard it called the Scarrier?
 

BigWorm

Marine Aviator
pilot
So far, both of the Harrier pilots that I met have punched out. I know that the first model had a lot of problems, but the B model seems good to go. The rumors have it that it is down for maintenance a lot, where some of the pilots have to get waivers to keep current. Some of my artillery buddies were making fun of it saying the time on station is very minimal.

Watching the special on Discovery Wings was awesome. It would drop a lot of cluster bombs annihilating everything within the kill radius. A few of the generals that spoke to us at TBS gave the bird a lot of praise because of the new sensor it has. In operation rescue baby lynch, it was up there providing exceptional live intelligence.

If anybody has some good real world stories, I would love to hear them. It’s still my dream machine, the bird just seems evil.
 

riley

Registered User
"Flying" Magazine had a real good story written by a Harrier pilot who flew missions during Iraqi Freedom. (September or October - I can't remember)

They recently had upgrades - new glass cockpit, radar, etc.

I'd like to fly it, if nothing else for the challenge - looking forward to when the JSF comes online, though.
 

Ray

Registered User
The harrier has this new thing called the Lightning Pod. It supposedly kicks major ass and is highly valued by battle field commanders. Most of the harrier pilots I know have been involved in some sort of combat in a close air support role. Its a good jet. And since the engine change its a relatively safe one. Although a guy I know ejected a while ago in the rag, but thats because it was OCF.
 

AArider

Registered User
Well,
I could talk for hours about the Harrier, its role and everything associated with it. In fact, I wrote a short (12 page) paper - with parts of it presented to Congress - about the Marine Avaiation program and the Harrier specifically. So, let me just mention a few points and if you want more PM me.

1. The AV8B is more maintenance intensive than any other fighter in the DOD. The Maintenance Manhours per Flight Hours is much more than the F/A-18.

2. One of the main reasons the Harrier hasn't been involved in more recent operations (Southern Watch/Northern Watch, Desert Fox) has more to do with the way its deployed. It is usually deployed as a 6 plane detachement attached to the MEU - commanded by a Marine COL. The Harrier is the ONLY fixed wing asset that the COL has direct command of, and they usually want to keep the harrier in "reserves" in case the Marines go ashore. Then the COL will have his own fixed wing assets to support the Marines.

3. In the summers of 1999 and 2000, the Harrier community experienced devistating "red stripe" groundings - lasting months. Many pilots didn't fly for months (6) and others of us flew only Functional Check Flights after doing major maintenance on the engine. I got out in 2001, but I believe most of those problems are behind us. However, in my opinion, the lack of funding over the years (last 20) will not overcome the recent funding, and pretty soon a lot of funding will dwindle down with the coming of the JSF.

4. Yes, the Lightening pod is an awesome piece of gear. I never got a chance to fly with it, but did some inital integration stuff with it. I have heard from a good friend at a high level job, that the pod gives better info (intel, BDA, etc.) than any other pod out there. The CINC really liked that during OIF/OEF.

5. The new Harrier II+ is really the airplane that should have been built to start with. Fully NVG compatible (by the way its the first TACAIR platform to be built from scratch that way), Great RADAR, FLIR, Large HUD, fully integrated weapons control systems, etc.. Incidently, the II+ is being built by taking an old "day attack" harrier, and re-using about 25% of it (the wing, landing gear, black boxes) and putting that all in/on a new empenage and engine.

6. The Harrier is harder to fly than a conventional airplane - so yes there probably is at least one "scare" story for every pilot that has flown it - myself included. I knew it was time to get out of the Marines when I was sitting around the office talking with 4 other pilots and they all told their ejection story - until they got to me. All my landings = takeoffs.

7. So, overall, it is a great aircraft, but the safety record is worse than other TACAIR platforms - but the Marines new this when they bought it. It was underfunded for years - The Navy owns the budget, but they don't fly and Harriers - you figure it out. Bandaid fixes finally caught up with it. It is fun to fly, has a great mission that it can flawlessly execute, but it does have some limitations. The concept was ahead of its time (until recently)- with weight limitations, engine problems, lack of targeting systems (Radar, Flir, Ligtening pod). I think the STOVL version of the F35 will be an awesome aircraft - without taking any penalty in performance for the STOVL. Incidently, I now work on the F35 program when I'm not flying for the reserves.

Any more questions please PM me.
AArider
 
G

GunsVF-103

Guest
About that harrier... at my School, the USMCJROTC's SGTMAJ is a Former Enlisted TAV-8B driver... he was the Command SGTMAJ for VMAT-203. (He later served with an AH-1W and OV-10D Unit before he retired)
My Principal is a Retired USAF Col. who calls it the "Scarrier", bcuz of it's reputation....

well, as it goes for any VTOL Machine, yes Engine Problems are a BIG risk during VTOL ops, if you suck in some of your own jetwash, you can end up as a dark spot on the far end of the runway.

Its because of that REason htat NAVAIR pulled the plug on ANY enlisted AV-8B Drivers...
and when I ask hte Ole' SGTMAJ if he misses his Back seat in hte TAV-8B, he sez to me "Oorah!"
Many a Good Tale about his Flying days have I enjoyed with him....
 

bobbybrock

Registered User
None
I'm somewhat confused about the enlisted aviator thing. I though the Navy and Marines did away with the whole NAP ( enlisted pilot) thing long long ago.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I served in a Navy Reserve TACRON and we were usually less then eager to put up the Harriers in the MEU. It is very valuable, especially when it is your only fast mover. Therein was the key. Seems like you only wanted to use it when it was absolutely necessary. The whole fuel state thing and flight deck operation integration. It was next to impossible to launch or recover helos when operating the Harriers. That may have changed some with the new LHDs or SOP changes. As a supporting arms coordinator I loved to have them overhead with a full bag of gas, but it made a lot of work for everyone else just to operate it.

AArider, sorry to hear about the job. Hope the AF is taking care of ya. Like to see you back on the line some day.
 
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