Tacair / E2/C2 Career Progression

[bolterking]

In general: flying is better than not flying, and flying within your community (RAG, WTI) is better than not (VTs, VX, C-12's, PEP). YMMV.

This is not totally true (VFA community wise). Especially since BUPERS is pushing #1 EP's to VT land. The mindshift is happening.

Yes, this used to be the case in VF/VFA land, but now with quality spread happening and more and more EP's being forced to go VT, this is not the case anymore.

I will caveat this saying, there are some old school CAG's, CO's etc that still will take an FRS pilot on their staff over VT due to fact they have been away from the community and that is their own perspective and decision....and we are seeing more and more DH coming out of VT and getting back to the fleet...but the position from BUPERS has changed with regard to staying in community and they are working hard to change the 'old guard' mindset.

 

[bolterking]

What do pilots do on IA / GSA?

Since this issue is near and dear to my heart, contact me offline and I can share some more info.

First there is a difference in IA and GSA. GSA is in lieu of PCS... ie. after tour in squadron, and prior to checking into next command, you do your GSA. IA is TAD duty while attatched to current command. The Navy is trying hard to elminate IA's and go more to GSA route but still IA's do happen...although not as much as before. GSA's are supposed to help in the notification process and choice of GSA duty. IA's tend to be spot fills, last minute orders (within BUPERS IA business rules NAVADMIN 002/08).

Depends on community detailer too. Many hide their cards or what is available while others don't. There is usually a huge list of spots to fill so you might be able to choose a duty that you have an interest in etc....but no guarentee. Man that 1 year IA in Tampa working with Air Force sounds awefully good to me right now. Damn my procrastination habbits.

The following site can shed some help. UNCLASS and standard line in GSA/IA orders.
EXPEDITIONARY COMBAT READINESS CENTER (ECRC) WEBSITE http://WWW.ECRC.NAVY.MIL

http://www.ia.navy.mil/1001.24.pdf

http://www.ia.navy.mil/navadmin003-08.htm (GSA Business Rules)

http://www.ia.navy.mil/navadmin002-08.htm (IA Business Rules)

Excellent start.

Basically it depends on the job, and who you talk to. Some love them (warrior type, medal chasers....you will easily leave that tour with a bronze star) and others hate them. One of the things you will find it truly is dependant on the person. I for one am on the fence. On one hand pissed because IA/GSA you are out of cockpit and not doing what you were trained to do and signed up for, while on the other hand, you are helping the "team" big military wise (some army dude having to do his third tour in a row...and my nephew is in this case so it hits home and hard to complain).

Bottom line IMOA (and not the party line or standard cool-aid drinking), they truly suck (teaching convoy ops to foreign military is not my expertise...and being base XO...army equilivant of supply officer is not the expierence I was hoping for prior to DH), but they are a fact and here and something to deal with. The Navy is trying their best to make the process better, and flow. It is more time away from family, but they work with you. If you get IA while on shore duty, your time in command stops, and you fufill that commitment when you return. When on sea-duty, that time is concurrent with "option" to stay for full tour. Your option. GSA's, well they are orders in lieu of next tour, so no real option there other then BUPERS will work to get you what you want, key word work.

I can go on and on and flood the forum, but if you want more details, PM me and I will gladly give the .25 cent tour.

 

[bunk22]

I volunteered for a GSA. Whether I volunteered or not, I was going on one. I simply took early orders so that I could get what I wanted on the backside. I'm good friends with our placement officer so I think he's pretty honest with me. My orders are for 11 months, 2 months of training (more like 3 weeks of training about of 2 months) and no more than 270 days in theatre...or so the orders say. Job position is battalion EWO, certainly not what I would ever want to do but what I have to do I suppose. I've never been a big supporter of the IA/GSA unless purely on a volunteer basis but it is what it is. The good side is a year long IA looks good on the board so it might certainly help to select that next rank. A little different adventure if bored and of course if you're a medal hound, maybe it's good. As for me, I'd rather have per diem than medals, I've had enough adventure and I'm not going any higher than O-4 but at least I get to fly for my last tour in the Navy. Only one non-flying tour in 20 years, could be a lot worse I think.

 

[Uncle Fester]

This is not totally true (VFA community wise). Especially since BUPERS is pushing #1 EP's to VT land. The mindshift is happening.

See my above statements about fashion changing WRT what billets are good for you and which are not. Bet those few Hornet bubbas who took VT slots in the past few years were told that they were slashing their professional wrists, right? But now it's cool. Same in VAW.

Today's career suicide is tomorrow's forward thinking.

 

[bunk22]

See my above statements about fashion changing WRT what billets are good for you and which are not. Bet those few Hornet bubbas who took VT slots in the past few years were told that they were slashing their professional wrists, right? But now it's cool. Same in VAW.

Today's career suicide is tomorrow's forward thinking.

As far as VRC community, thinking back to 98 when I joined VRC-30, of my skippers, of the CO/XO's I served under, 4 were VAW/VRC FRS IP's and 2 were VT IP's. Then 1 did neither, went from C-2's to S-3's and back, no VT or VAW IP tour.

 

[bolterking]

The good side is a year long IA looks good on the board so it might certainly help to select that next rank.quote]

I ask this in true honesty and no rhetorical comedy meant...does an IA/GSA really pull any weight on DH and placement boards these days with so many IA/GSA's now?

Seems almost everyone is getting one, so almost becoming standard (god that is a scary statement).

 

[bunk22]

The good side is a year long IA looks good on the board so it might certainly help to select that next rank.quote]

I ask this in true honesty and no rhetorical comedy meant...does an IA/GSA really pull any weight on DH and placement boards these days with so many IA/GSA's now?

Seems almost everyone is getting one, so almost becoming standard (god that is a scary statement).

From what I hear, a year long IA/GSA is a check in the block, at least for O-5. I think if I had done this prior to my O-5 board, probably would have made O-5....from what I know from my community at least.

 

[Uncle Fester]

From what I'm hearing, IA/GSA's aren't required...but...it sorta looks bad if you haven't done one, unless your particular timing didn't permit it. Some kind of, "you dodged doing one, so are you really a Company Man?" yadda yadda.

So yeah, sounds like we're really really close to institutionalizing and making mandatory what was supposed to be an interim help-out-the-Army thing.

 

[MasterBates]

Another IA question:

Were we doing any such thing during VN?

Other than maybe Naval Artillery spotters and FACs?

The Army has had more than enough time to unfvck their personnel issues. I was talking to my father about this last weekend and he can't remember any USN presence that he can recall. Granted it's 40 years later.

Not to sound like a shithead, but I'm going to say it anyways, this is the big picture version of "choose your rate, choose your fate".

In peacetime, the Army is not on 6+ month deployments like we are. We do this peace, war, cold war, whatever. Just more of a question of is ordnance being dropped in anger or not. When Iraq and Afghanistan are all done, the Army isn't going to be on our undermanned ships helping out, and we will still be on patrol in various places around the globe.

 

[bunk22]

From what I'm hearing, IA/GSA's aren't required...but...it sorta looks bad if you haven't done one, unless your particular timing didn't permit it. Some kind of, "you dodged doing one, so are you really a Company Man?" yadda yadda.

So yeah, sounds like we're really really close to institutionalizing and making mandatory what was supposed to be an interim help-out-the-Army thing.

Yep. New Navy, same issues.

 

[kacraven]

Alright so I dunno if a threadjack that takes it back to the original thread actually counts as a threadjack but here goes:

When in your career does the 8 yr committment run out? I've seen the basic flow chart for a naval aviator career (Flight School/RAG -- 1st sea tour -- 1st shore tour -- disassociated sea tour etc ..) but where in there does the timer run out? I know theres a ton of ways to modify your career with IA's etc but whats a good general timeframe?

 

[tdimarco]

I have heard about some opportunities to complete a masters and teach at the academy for a couple years. Has anyone gone that route? Any tentative guesses on how that would affect a guy's career prospects?

 

[bunk22]

Alright so I dunno if a threadjack that takes it back to the original thread actually counts as a threadjack but here goes:

When in your career does the 8 yr committment run out? I've seen the basic flow chart for a naval aviator career (Flight School/RAG -- 1st sea tour -- 1st shore tour -- disassociated sea tour etc ..) but where in there does the timer run out? I know theres a ton of ways to modify your career with IA's etc but whats a good general timeframe?

It runs out 8 years after you earn you wings.

 

[Tom]

The 8 year mark location would depend on whether you are choosing to stay. If you're getting out you're ripe for an IA that will take up the last year or so of the contract. If you're staying in then you would likely be in a disassociated sea tour/super JO tour/etc.

 

[e6bflyer]

I have heard about some opportunities to complete a masters and teach at the academy for a couple years. Has anyone gone that route? Any tentative guesses on how that would affect a guy's career prospects?

Yes, it happens all the time. As a pilot, you are pretty much shooting yourself in the foot career wise if you take non-flying (and even some flying) orders. You can get your Masters, just tough to do it in residence. As a FO, who knows? Those guys seem to go all sorts of goofy places and it doesn't really matter.
I have a buddy who is doing the academy thing right now and he isn't a fan. It is a lot of babysitting and mandatory fun. Once you grow up and get a real job, the Academy just isn't that cool anymore. He got his MBA, though, and he is getting out (a 7 year guy), so mission accomplished.