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T-6 EPs
- Thread starter NapalmRat
- Start date
Let me get this right, a civilian IFS instructor failed someone on a boldface quiz.......because of a lack of space between MASTER and SWITCH?
Now you know the difference between the jet and helocommunities
I have to disagree (politely) Standing at 1G and 0 KIAS is a hell of a lot different than flying 200 KIAS at the break and pulling 2-3 G's. Talking about EP's and doing them are two way different things. Actual practice of EP's teaches you to keep a proficient scan of yer instruments while fighting the problem and not crashing into the ground. Standing in front of yer class trying to remember some obscure number just doesn't translate (but I can still remember FL final speed-110 KIAS)
There is something to be said about the expectation to have that in depth understanding of yer equipment, but I think that is rather expected before you step into the aircraft.
Oh...and there is no such thing as "every emergency situation possible" (have you had snakes on a plane yet?)
Just my opinion...
I can only hope the OP's request for T-6 EP's degenerates into a pissing contest between who flew the better primary trainer, or who went through harder primary flight training.
That. would. be. awesome.
That. would. be. awesome.
dude, I went through Primary at Vance...I think I earned the right to knock it.
magnetfreezer
Well-Known Member
http://www.dossifs.com - basically, the AF was experiencing attrition rates in UPT that led them to believe a lack of standardization among civilian IFS schools was a problem. They also felt some students also had trouble adjusting to the 12 hour a day, standup, other AF stuff of UPT coming from civilian flying. All AF pilot candidates regardless of what civilian license they have now go through this centralized IFS with mostly retired civilian contract instructors (and a few mil IPs for checkrides, etc) in the DA-20 out at Pueblo, complete with 12 hour days, boldface, standups, etc. The AF is eventually trying to have all the SWSOs go there as well once enough slots open up; this guy was part of the first AF SWSO test class.
danthaman
The right to keep and bear arms
Hehe...yeah, that wasn't where I was going with my previous post. I was just trying to discuss the difference between the AF and Navy method of EP training. I don't think either program is superior to the other. Both are great for their own purposes and a lot can be learned from both. You are right...talking through an EP and flying are 2 different things. My point was that I liked how the AF makes you think through EP scenarios constantly. I don't think that there is much that can happen in a T-6 that you would be surprised with and not know how to handle if you are a good student.
...And no...I have not yet had snakes on an airplane, and in all honesty, I'm not quite sure I would know how to deal with that one :icon_wink
I know you are joking around, but what are you trying to say here?Now you know the difference between the jet and helocommunities
I completely agree with the point I think you are trying to make.
IMO the AF really focuses on training the entire EP scenario, well beyond the handful of checklist steps. It is done through the stand up technique, which of course is part of the harassment package. However, as you progress and become more senior in the program the stand up session is less about harassment and more about working through all of the steps in EP, in many cases as a team, and then reinforced with a wrap up by an IP.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
The way I studied EP's, from Primary through my fleet aircraft was figuring out what was happening (systems-wise) when I moved each switch/handle/circuit breaker, etc... Maybe that's why I ended up in helos - but it worked, because when I was presented with stuff that didn't fit the NATOPS "mold", I was able to think through it and come up with a good idea what I should do. I don't think pure rote-memorization is the best idea...
Agree wholeheartedly.
This is how I study systems and EPs. Go to NATOPS, pick one... memory item or not.
Figure out what in the system malfunctioned to cause the issue, and how each step in the procedure affects the system.
Now, you have a much better understanding of the system and the aircraft.
Again, agree wholeheartedly. There was a VERY noticeable difference when i studied with someone who memorized the EP vice someone who UNDERSTOOD the EP.
First of all, understanding the EP makes it easier to memorize by default but on top of that, it makes you appear much more professional and impressive in a brief, as opposed to a NATOPS robot who if given a question you can't regurgitate an answer for, will start smoking out the ears and have a brain overload.
I specifically remember a few EPs which involved even common sense that the IP would challenge me on, and when I later asked friends, they would strictly regurgitate the PCL and not think about the N/W/C's or the associated systems. Examples:
Oil system malfunction: During PEL, once on profile, would you shut down the engine?
Airstart: if you had altitude, would you run the starter longer than 40 seconds?
Uncommanded prop feather: would you put the C/L into feather or leave it full forward?
My answers (and corroborated in the plane by IPs agreeing with my action)
No
Yes
Full Forward (per the Note)
Memorizing doesn't give you the knowledge sufficient to think on your feet, especially during multiple emergencies in flight. That is where systems knowledge and chair flying comes into play.
Helo guys are generally better with NATOPS knowledge that jet guys from my experience.....ie Dumb details like a space in between Master and Switch
.......Sorry about the double-entendre
