Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation (Part 3)

[Gatordev]

Pretty sure MIDNJAC is out of Oceana, so he's probably also seeing Norfolk-isms. Instead of a simple "Ground, Goose 11 taxi VFR with information foxtrot", the call we're required to make is "Ground, Goose 11 single CH-46E taxi for a Lima Departure with information foxtrot. We have 4 souls, 3+00 and will be outbound for 2+30".

All of that is a Wing 5 hold over and it happens at NRB and NZY as well. I went round and round with Mayport about this. The head ATC dude was completely onboard with what I was saying, yet it took forever for any real change to take place, and still more than 50% of the time, you'd get asked stuff that wasn't necessary.

At NZY, the Base Ops manual says explicitly what to say, and it doesn't include what you've said, but just about everyone here still runs on and on about their life story. When I just tell them souls and time with info, they're happy. I've had others tell me if I don't give them all the extra stuff, they'll just ask for it, but I've never had that actually happen.

In reality, it's just a bunch of helo dudes who are doing it "the way they always do it."

My favorite, though, was at Mayport where, after filing an actual, official -175 to Base Ops, I was then asked all the same stuff. They got an "energetic" reply.

 

[jtmedli]

Pretty sure MIDNJAC is out of Oceana, so he's probably also seeing Norfolk-isms. Instead of a simple "Ground, Goose 11 taxi VFR with information foxtrot", the call we're required to make is "Ground, Goose 11 single CH-46E taxi for a Lima Departure with information foxtrot. We have 4 souls, 3+00 and will be outbound for 2+30". And then we repeat it because the heliport controllers aren't so bright and ask us for state, souls, and time enroute. There's other heliport-isms as well...

I usually try to say "Thanks" if they get it right the first time. I'm sure they have no idea why, but regardless, I appreciate it.

 

[e6bflyer]

One nice thing about flying at North Whiting was at least the calls were all canned, so you didn't usually get people with diarrhea of the mouth too bad (except foreign students, don't even get me started). The downside of that is that when you took students on CCX, they were horrible on the radios.

 

[jtmedli]

One nice thing about flying at North Whiting was at least the calls were all canned, so you didn't usually get people with diarrhea of the mouth too bad (except foreign students, don't even get me started). The downside of that is that when you took students on CCX, they were horrible on the radios.

It's like a CCX all day, every day around here.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Fair enough. Do you have any suggestions about where to start with the reading.

The American Practical Navigator, often referred to as just Bowditch after the last name of the author, Nathaniel Bowditch.

 

[PenguinGal]

The American Practical Navigator, often referred to as just Bowditch after the last name of the author, Nathaniel Bowditch.

Dutton's is also a decent resource. I know PenguinGuy uses both when he wants to brush up.

 

[cameron172]

After some searching, I can't seem to find an answer to my question. On a SH-60, I sometimes see the horizontal stabilizer fully deflected downward and other times I see it level with the horizon. I figured it has something to do with forward airspeed. How does the pilot control the angle (if at all)? What advantages are there to it being deflected downward in a hover?

 

[bert]

After some searching, I can't seem to find an answer to my question. On a SH-60, I sometimes see the horizontal stabilizer fully deflected downward and other times I see it level with the horizon. I figured it has something to do with forward airspeed. How does the pilot control the angle (if at all)? What advantages are there to it being deflected downward in a hover?

Correct. It is programmed automatically in normal operation, but can be set manually. Nose attitude (would be much higher if the stab were level).

 

[wlawr005]

To amplify, the -60 can operate at all airspeeds with the stab at 0 degrees (horizontal), although it may not be optimum. The opposite is not true however...full stab down with significant forward airspeed can cause severe nose down pitch attitudes.

 

[Jim123]

After some searching, I can't seem to find an answer to my question. On a SH-60, I sometimes see the horizontal stabilizer fully deflected downward and other times I see it level with the horizon. I figured it has something to do with forward airspeed. How does the pilot control the angle (if at all)? What advantages are there to it being deflected downward in a hover?

Short answer is that the stab is designed to help keep the fuselage level across a wide range of flight regimes and maneuvers. In the 60, the stab moves automatically (normally). You can also manually control it, but the only reasons for doing that are to test it, compensate for a malfunction, or for simulated emergencies.

The main influence in stab angle programming is airspeed (good guess). Hovering and low airspeed, it goes all the way down. Fast, it's level (or a little bit up). If it is stuck on level in a hover then the aircraft will hover with a little more nose-up pitch, during the deceleration the nose will be pointed quite a bit higher. If it gets stuck full down then the aircraft will dive into the ground above a certain airspeed. The stab also does a few other things to fine tune the aircraft's handling characteristics, but that's another story...

Some helos have a moving stab (not just the H-60) and others have a fixed stab. A moving stab works better than a fixed stab because it can optimize instead of compromise. On the other hand, I've never once heard of a mission getting scrubbed because a fixed stab with zero moving parts failed preflight checks

 

[jtmedli]

After some searching, I can't seem to find an answer to my question. On a SH-60, I sometimes see the horizontal stabilizer fully deflected downward and other times I see it level with the horizon. I figured it has something to do with forward airspeed. How does the pilot control the angle (if at all)? What advantages are there to it being deflected downward in a hover?

The Stab auto programs down at low airspeeds to prevent nose-high attitudes at low airspeeds and then programs up to 10 degrees up at higher airspeeds to keep a level attitude. It has the capability to be manually slewed, but primarily is controlled by the flight control computer via a few inputs (airspeed being the most important).

Also, I believe some models of the Army UH-60 had a different Stab design (i.e. fixed or limited stab) to circumvent stab malfunctions and auto mode degradations during TERF flight. You dont want a Stab auto-programming to full down on you when you're only 50' off the deck due to lack of recovery time.

 

[Coota0]

Are Navy ATO callsigns assigned to aircraft (each aircraft has specific callsign) or to the mission (lead will be hornet 1-1 and trail will be hornet 2-2 no matter which aircraft fly it)?

 

[RadicalDude]

Depends, but typically Each callsign is assigned based on the event they are flying that day. So all the aircraft in event one would fly under Vengeance 11, unless they split up, in which case you'd have Vengeance 11, 12, 13, 14, etc. event two is Vengeance 21, 22, 23, etc.

The major exception to this rule is flying around the boat, where physical side numbers are always used. Example: 100 series for FA-18F, 200-400 for additional Rhinos & Hornets, 500 is Prowler/Growler, 600 is E2 & Helos.

 

[RadicalDude]

Releasing your question I think I can answer it better. Our airwing would typically launch three separate sorties into Afghanistan each day. They'd be staggered so you'd have a morning, mid morning, and an afternoon go. Each sortie would have a section of rhinos or hornets from each VFA squadron. They'd each take their squadrons OEF callsign, and the sortie number. So morning go would be Vengeance 11,12 Bearcat 11,12 Helldiver 11,12, etc. mid morning Vengeance 21,22, afternoon Vengeance 31,32, etc. Does that make sense?

 

[C420sailor]

...Depends...

Nailed it. Out in Japanland, things are done a little differently. All aircraft are listed by time of departure on the air wing schedule, and each individual aircraft is its own 'event' of sorts, even if flying in section/division/etc. Your squadron radio callsign gets put in front of the event number, and that's your ATC callsign. For example...

LIBERTY 1 0900
CHIPPY 2 0915 (section lead)
CHIPPY 3 0915 (dash two)
WARLORD 4 0915
DBACK 5 0930
etc etc