Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation (Part 3)

[Brett327]

It's interesting to me to hear about all the hoops that many of you RW folks have to jump through sometimes. Contrast this with a pointy-nosed pilot that gets 10 hours in type before a NATOPS check, and about 50 prior to CQ, which is all the qual that person needs to fly more or less any admin type flight by themselves. My sense is that we rely much more on ACTC and other non-NATOPS quals (section or division lead, FCF, etc) to ensure that the right amount of experience is in any given cockpit.

 

[Brett327]

n BC (before computers) times...A long, vertically-held pole that had two horizontal arms protruding from it would have multiple pieces of tape (tracking flags) attached between the horizontal arms. The individual main rotor blade tips were coated with differently-colored grease pencil or chalk.

With the helicopter running on the ground, the tracking flags were moved in toward the rotor blade tips. As the blade tips made contact with the flags, each left a mark corresponding to its assigned color. If the marks were vertically separated, a pitch-change adjustment was needed to move the blade tips closer together. If the marks overlapped one another, no adjustment was required. The downside to this method is that it was dangerous and could only be done on the ground.

I've heard old SH-2 and SH-3 pilots talk about this technique.

 

[JTS11]

I've heard old SH-2 and SH-3 pilots talk about this technique.

I'm going to try and find a video of this process.

It would seem to be difficult to accomplish during rough wx/at sea. Also, reliant on a crew chief with big cajones to shove a big stick up in front of the tip path plane.🥲

Edit: I guess some airframes use this technique? But this looks like the basic contraption used...F that

 

[Griz882]

In the Beginning

In BC (before computers) times...A long, vertically-held pole that had two horizontal arms protruding from it would have multiple pieces of tape (tracking flags) attached between the horizontal arms. The individual main rotor blade tips were coated with differently-colored grease pencil or chalk.

With the helicopter running on the ground, the tracking flags were moved in toward the rotor blade tips. As the blade tips made contact with the flags, each left a mark corresponding to its assigned color. If the marks were vertically separated, a pitch-change adjustment was needed to move the blade tips closer together. If the marks overlapped one another, no adjustment was required. The downside to this method is that it was dangerous and could only be done on the ground.

Most helicopters flying in the GA world still use a low-rent version of a strobe gun and some weird reflective tape. Just for grins, here is my last track and balance sheet to include some calculations.

 

[VMO4]

We used the pole and tape method described on our UH-1N's and AH-1J's in the 80's, which makes sense because I believe they basically had the same engine and tranny systems.

 

[Gatordev]

It's interesting to me to hear about all the hoops that many of you RW folks have to jump through sometimes. Contrast this with a pointy-nosed pilot that gets 10 hours in type before a NATOPS check, and about 50 prior to CQ, which is all the qual that person needs to fly more or less any admin type flight by themselves. My sense is that we rely much more on ACTC and other non-NATOPS quals (section or division lead, FCF, etc) to ensure that the right amount of experience is in any given cockpit.

I think this discussion is a good example of seeing the evolution of the process and why it was (IMO) more important to have a FCP back when things were more manual vs now with IMDS, integrated accelerometers, and an onboard camera. Add dealing with the odd-ball additions of having to FCF on a small boy (SPY/-49 interference, bottoming out on the chains or RSD, reseating the struts with loose chains, etc) and there were a lot of tricks of the trade that a 2P just didn't know as a newer guy.

There's also all kinds of bizarre stuff that happens with the T700 when the wiring harnesses have issues. These are more flight/FCP related, but it goes to why so much energy is expended on the FCP process, and why Mx really appreciates a savvy FCP and not some boob who can't even write the correct numbers on the card.

 

[phrogdriver]

I've heard old SH-2 and SH-3 pilots talk about this technique.

Helos are still in the mindset of the stab-bar Hueys, where taking your hands off the stick for a moment was just to take your life in your hands.

Each generation is less like that, but the cockpits and accompanying training are built around a 2 pilot mindset, even when they don't need to be anymore.

If the V-22 was ergonomically designed for it, I could comfortably fly it single pilot.

Having worked in FVL BD, a lot of senior leaders literally ask the question, "If an F-35 pilot can lead a strike while operating an exquisite sensor suite and fusing data from tactical and strategic assets, why can't we build an aircraft to land in an LZ without 2 guys up front?"

They aren't wrong.

 

[Roger_Waveoff]

Helos are still in the mindset of the stab-bar Hueys, where taking your hands off the stick for a moment was just to take your life in your hands.

Each generation is less like that, but the cockpits and accompanying training are built around a 2 pilot mindset, even when they don't need to be anymore.

If the V-22 was ergonomically designed for it, I could comfortably fly it single pilot.

Having worked in FVL BD, a lot of senior leaders literally ask the question, "If an F-35 pilot can lead a strike while operating an exquisite sensor suite and fusing data from tactical and strategic assets, why can't we build an aircraft to land in an LZ without 2 guys up front?"

They aren't wrong.

We had a discussion about this in my previous squadron’s ready room one time. The only consensus we could really come to was you don’t really want to have a single point of failure up front potentially taking one through the dome on short final or during extract if you’re flying a plane with 18-23 shooters in the back. I think we generally agreed too that the V-22 can be flown single-pilot in extremis. Don’t know about you, but my 2P check at the FRS entailed my instructor falling unconscious and me having to get us home. On this particular day, that included shooting a PAR almost to mins, too. Somehow I, with my <200 total hours and below jet grades NSS, managed.

 

[DanMa1156]

Going to date myself, but early 2000s in Bravos, it was fairly common at the end of the det to let the 2Ps who had done well on deployment do some fam flights around the boat. It was incredibly motivating and a great confidence boost getting ready for HAC.

FWIW - completely prohibited now - cannot do shipboard 2P-2P flights.

 

[DanMa1156]

It's interesting to me to hear about all the hoops that many of you RW folks have to jump through sometimes. Contrast this with a pointy-nosed pilot that gets 10 hours in type before a NATOPS check, and about 50 prior to CQ, which is all the qual that person needs to fly more or less any admin type flight by themselves. My sense is that we rely much more on ACTC and other non-NATOPS quals (section or division lead, FCF, etc) to ensure that the right amount of experience is in any given cockpit.

I flew our CAG's last helo flight before retiring. He came to the squadron suuuuuper early and I told him we had a preflight crew but he could join me if he wanted. After preflighting he said "damn, that was exhausting. I have to say though, all these years I've made fun of helo and VP crews for all your various 2P and HAC quals and how long it takes to earn them. Now that I see how much can actually go wrong with this thing - how many moving pieces there are - my gosh, I get it now along with how many missions you all have."

 

[MGoBrew11]

FWIW - completely prohibited now - cannot do shipboard 2P-2P flights.

Really? Bummer. I did a 2P/2P flight on a 2016 deployment.

I didn’t really think much of it at the time, but I suppose it builds the confidence a little bit.

 

[hscs]

Helos are still in the mindset of the stab-bar Hueys, where taking your hands off the stick for a moment was just to take your life in your hands.

Each generation is less like that, but the cockpits and accompanying training are built around a 2 pilot mindset, even when they don't need to be anymore.

If the V-22 was ergonomically designed for it, I could comfortably fly it single pilot.

Having worked in FVL BD, a lot of senior leaders literally ask the question, "If an F-35 pilot can lead a strike while operating an exquisite sensor suite and fusing data from tactical and strategic assets, why can't we build an aircraft to land in an LZ without 2 guys up front?"

They aren't wrong.

Apples and oranges.

Weapons delivery and a hostile HLZ are different beasts.

OBTW, when that F-35 pilot has to land, it’s on a runway or with the aid of gucci systems and an LSO.

 

[Meyerkord]

FWIW - completely prohibited now - cannot do shipboard 2P-2P flights.

Must be a S thing. Still allowed in the R NATOPS

 

[Odominable]

Helos are still in the mindset of the stab-bar Hueys, where taking your hands off the stick for a moment was just to take your life in your hands.

Each generation is less like that, but the cockpits and accompanying training are built around a 2 pilot mindset, even when they don't need to be anymore.

If the V-22 was ergonomically designed for it, I could comfortably fly it single pilot.

Having worked in FVL BD, a lot of senior leaders literally ask the question, "If an F-35 pilot can lead a strike while operating an exquisite sensor suite and fusing data from tactical and strategic assets, why can't we build an aircraft to land in an LZ without 2 guys up front?"

They aren't wrong.

Not to put too much of a point on it, but I think single pilot assault support is gonna remain a third rail as long as a single pilot becoming incapacitated is a single point of failure.

 

[JTS11]

...Don’t know about you, but my 2P check at the FRS entailed my instructor falling unconscious and me having to get us home...

Ha, I did this as an FRS instructor on a few 2P check rides. (thought I was being original, but I guess not) 😄

It was kind of funny to slump over in the straps, and get a "you alright?' on the ICS, and reply "Simulated", then come alive and be a brick.. Only did it though at the end of a good checkride.

Your other points are well taken.