Special Forces for NAs/NFOs

[red_ryder]

OP, I love your forward-leaning, but remember you should probably get your wings in your favorite platform before you look into something like that. Seriously, no one would be grooming you for that kind of job, if it existed, until after you got your mission commander qual anyway.

Plus, consider that we do support those guys anyway in the normal line of duty from time to time, i.e. OEF ops.

 

[llnick2001]

I guess this falls under the category of "to thine own self be true": Does/do RC squadrons, apparently commanded by airline pilots, REALLY constitute "dedicated SOF support"?

I'm not saying the current system is flawed, or out of whack, with everything that SOCCOM/JSOC has to offer to the mix, but what does "dedicated and on-call" mean?

Yes. It means we (84/85) have OCONUS detachments co-located with SOF from across our military in multiple AORs right now, awaiting or fulfilling tasking from their respective theater special operations command.

 

[llnick2001]

Not according to the Program Manager (your PXO) and the just-recently transferred FTS detailer who did a brief in your very spaces a year ago about this. HCS FTS is getting healthier, so the long-term plan is to start replacing those AC LTs with FTS board selects like it was in the past. Will it go completely RC? Probably not in the short term, but the billets you fill (as it was explained to me) are FTS billets with a few AC plus ups for good measure.

I'll defer to their wisdom on the long term plan. We are still selecting at an unchanged rate from what I've seen in my three years. I don't doubt we're getting healthier on the FTS side. Many of us are seeking ways not to leave...

 

[Gatordev]

I didn't intend to come off sounding like I was claiming that HSC were the only ones that ever supported SEAL's, or even that we ever really did the mission...

I didn't take that way, sorry if it came across that way. My comment was more generic and not directed towards you or your post.

I guess this falls under the category of "to thine own self be true": Does/do RC squadrons, apparently commanded by airline pilots, REALLY constitute "dedicated SOF support"?

Nice try. That's not what I actually said. If you re-read my post, I said "my" COs, not the current -84/85 COs. But guess what, people can actually fly more than one Type professionally and be very good at what they fly. Kind of the point of my post. I'm sorry that's lost on you.

I don't doubt we're getting healthier on the FTS side. Many of us are seeking ways not to leave...

I don't doubt it and can understand why.

I'll defer to their wisdom on the long term plan. We are still selecting at an unchanged rate from what I've seen in my three years.

When you say "still selecting," do you mean FTS or HSC augments? The "FTS solution" will take time before it affects the AC dudes, but the fact that the (HCS) community is growing is evidenced by the fact they're selecting HSM dudes (once again).

 

[hscs]

^
This is not evidence of anything - HSM has always been selected to fly inHCS/ 84/85.

FTS community needs out quotas from AC - which are not coming - to remain healthy.

 

[1rotorhead]

"It just still surprised me that the Navy arguably has the most versatile group of special operators with the SEALs yet such little in the way of aerial special ops support compared to the AF and Army. Although I guess that's what makes the SEALs so great; the fact that they are so independent and not reliant on other Navy assets for support."
-Just wondering why you feel qualified to make this claim? Vast years of experience working with SOF?

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

OP, I love your forward-leaning, but remember you should probably get your wings in your favorite platform before you look into something like that. Seriously, no one would be grooming you for that kind of job, if it existed, until after you got your mission commander qual anyway.

Plus, consider that we do support those guys anyway in the normal line of duty from time to time, i.e. OEF ops.

Completely understand. At this point all I'm about focused on is building the best package I can for the SNA/SNFO board. I was asking more out of curiosity than making future career plans.

-Just wondering why you feel qualified to make this claim? Vast years of experience working with SOF?

Pure conjecture on my part, and I've since been proven wrong with the -84 and -85 squadrons. Sorry if I came across like that.

And thank you to everyone who has answered, I had no idea that the -84 and -85 even existed. I'm really enjoying reading about their operations and your experiences with them.

 

[1rotorhead]

Good luck to you.

 

[Renegade One]

With all due respect, I think you're out of your lane on this one.

Nice try. That's not what I actually said. If you re-read my post, I said "my" COs, not the current -84/85 COs.

Yes. It means we (84/85) have OCONUS detachments co-located with SOF from across our military in multiple AORs right now, awaiting or fulfilling tasking from their respective theater special operations command.

Roger..paddling back into my lane…thanks to all for the updates. Sounds like a great community.

 

[llnick2001]

When you say "still selecting," do you mean FTS or HSC augments? The "FTS solution" will take time before it affects the AC dudes, but the fact that the (HCS) community is growing is evidenced by the fact they're selecting HSM dudes (once again).

I was talking about AC guys (obviously we get plenty of SELRES and FTS too). FTS would be much healthier pretty quick if the active side would let a few of us jump ship a little earlier. For AC guys, we seem to have 1-2 spots per nom cycle, though obviously that varies. We look at both 2nd and 3rd tour guys. One advantage of active guys at 85 is it creates a cadre of at least some future FTS and SELRES who are already syllabus complete and as experienced as current events allow. It does a pretty good job of recruiting "junior most qualified" folks looking for a change of scenery.

 

[Gatordev]

^
This is not evidence of anything - HSM has always been selected to fly inHCS/ 84/85.

I understand that, but for a couple of years, selection of FTS HSL dudes for HCS was turned off (shortly after a few AC HSL guys went up to -84...but I think that was coincidental). With the group of Wings +8 requirement slowing down available bodies, it caused a problem FTS-wide. The "restriction" (for lack of a better word) was turned off for HSL/HSM. Obviously (as you no doubt know) they still have to be pretty sharp to get hired.

FTS community needs out quotas from AC - which are not coming - to remain healthy.

Agreed, but now that the Wings +8 folks are starting to become available and are able to drop their letter and apply, it can at least help make the FTS side a little healthier.

Again, I'm just quoting what Steve and Chuck said in your very spaces...HCS is getting healthier which has the potential to eliminate at least some of the AC players. If that's changed, so be it.

I was talking about AC guys (obviously we get plenty of SELRES and FTS too). FTS would be much healthier pretty quick if the active side would let a few of us jump ship a little earlier. For AC guys, we seem to have 1-2 spots per nom cycle, though obviously that varies. We look at both 2nd and 3rd tour guys. One advantage of active guys at 85 is it creates a cadre of at least some future FTS and SELRES who are already syllabus complete and as experienced as current events allow. It does a pretty good job of recruiting "junior most qualified" folks looking for a change of scenery.

Copy. As you and hscs are saying, the +8 thing is causing issues HELWINGRES-wide (or I guess MSW-wide now). You guys just seem to have more clout behind you to help augment the issue (internal MOBs, AC guys, etc).

 

[jmcquate]

Isn't there some COD support for HALO inserts or is that just a Hollywood thing?

 

[hscs]

I understand that, but for a couple of years, selection of FTS HSL dudes for HCS was turned off (shortly after a few AC HSL guys went up to -84...but I think that was coincidental). With the group of Wings +8 requirement slowing down available bodies, it caused a problem FTS-wide. The "restriction" (for lack of a better word) was turned off for HSL/HSM. Obviously (as you no doubt know) they still have to be pretty sharp to get hired.

Agreed, but now that the Wings +8 folks are starting to become available and are able to drop their letter and apply, it can at least help make the FTS side a little healthier.

Actually, I believe that had more to do with HSL-60 needing people, too - in talking with folks, if you wanted to go FTS for a while back and were coming from HSL - there was only one place you were going - HSL-60.

For part 2 - dropping a letter makes guys nervous, they still want to fly, but want to do it a different way. What happens if they don't get picked up????

 

[TexasTools]

Isn't there some COD support for HALO inserts or is that just a Hollywood thing?

When I was with VRC-30 for a middie cruise, we dropped the Leap Frogs for training. The pilots said they do a lot of training flights for the SEALs to jump and the plane has the capability to fit a boat in the back, but it's just that: they have the capability but it's not their mission. With all the resources NSW has, I don't think they need the CODs. So yeah I think it's just a Hollywood thing.

 

[Gatordev]

Actually, I believe that had more to do with HSL-60 needing people, too - in talking with folks, if you wanted to go FTS for a while back and were coming from HSL - there was only one place you were going - HSL-60.

Perhaps, but not the word I got from a couple of HCS sources, including my CO who would go over and socialize with "Gorgeous" over in your building (they were both at -5 together). The policy put out for a period of time (for FTS) was no HSL/HSM. That said, I know I ran into this in 2007... -60 desperately needed bodies and me and my buddy were snapped up due to our HSL records.

For part 2 - dropping a letter makes guys nervous, they still want to fly, but want to do it a different way. What happens if they don't get picked up????

Definitely a concern, and something I counsel people about. But if they're "HCS or bust," it's a way to make it happen. Your last two HSM accessions are perfect examples.