Space Force Officer Relieved After Denouncing CRT/Marxism

[Brett327]

^^ Non-sequitur of the day award winner.

 

[Spekkio]

That was true well before this most recent kerfuffle. Our schools suck, and our electorate is more stupid because of that.

A broad and silly generalization.

The racial achievement gap is the biggest challenge facing American schools, and accounts for the vast majority of the delta between other western education systems.

 

[Brett327]

A broad and silly generalization.

The racial achievement gap is the biggest challenge facing American schools, and accounts for the vast majority of the delta between other western education systems.

It's a generalization because it's generally true.

Fascinating, but unsurprising based on your previous posting, that your argument seems to be "The white kids are doing just fine. It's the brown people making us look bad." (insert Picard facepalm)

 

[exNavyOffRec]

A broad and silly generalization.

The racial achievement gap is the biggest challenge facing American schools, and accounts for the vast majority of the delta between other western education systems.

When looking at that gap is it due to the education system or due to a deeper issue dealing with support at home? The kids I grew up with that struggled in school often had minimal support at home (often due to single parent household) and this was any racial background but if I recall non-white kids are at a greater risk of being from single parent households. Maybe a way to get support to those who need it would help with the gap?

 

[Spekkio]

Fascinating, but unsurprising based on your previous posting, that your argument seems to be "The white kids are doing just fine. It's the brown people making us look bad." (insert Picard facepalm)

A poor conclusion on your part. There is a lot of research and very few conclusions as to why the racial achievement gap exists. Even when controlled by economic status, there is still a disparity.

 

[sevenhelmet]

What I see as a parent is people with the means to do so moving to districts with good schools, or sending their kids to private school. Our political leaders at multiple levels have gutted public school districts to the point that people who can't afford to move are stuck with terrible schools. I don't have a great solution, but prioritizing educational spending and paying teachers more might be a start. It's certainly better than propagandizing schools, banning books, and paying teachers dirt. Better educate our population, and I think a lot of our problems might get better within a generation or so. It would be nice if we could have a collective political vision that looked that far ahead. [/rant]

I also think we should value apprenticeships and trade schools more highly than we currently do. College has its place, but it needs to stop being table stakes for jobs that don't actually require a college degree. OK, I'm really done now.

 

[wink]

What I see as a parent is people with the means to do so moving to districts with good schools, or sending their kids to private school. Our political leaders at multiple levels have gutted public school districts to the point that people who can't afford to move are stuck with terrible schools. I don't have a great solution, but prioritizing educational spending and paying teachers more might be a start. It's certainly better than propagandizing schools, banning books, and paying teachers dirt. Better educate our population, and I think a lot of our problems might get better within a generation or so. It would be nice if we could have a collective political vision that looked that far ahead. [/rant]

Certainly a lot of truth there. I do not, however, believe paying teachers more is a big factor. Some places pay teachers very well, some don't and need improvement. Some of the highest paid teachers work in school systems that have some of the worst results. Most private and charter schools pay their teachers the same wage as a public school teacher and sometimes with a less generous pension/retirement plan. Teachers go to those schools because of the better learning environment and management's value of quality teaching. And, they do it with less administrative costs.
Regarding support from home, it is often related to the education level of the parents. When a parent did not value education, was unserious about their own studies, dropped out of high school, or is an immigrant who doesn't speak the lingo, they are either uninclined to help a child or can't. It is a viscous circle.

I also think we should value apprenticeships and trade schools more highly than we currently do. College has its place, but it needs to stop being table stakes for jobs that don't actually require a college degree. OK, I'm really done now.

This x 1000. I have taught and still substitute at a Career and Technical Education (CTE) school. That is what they call the old tech or VoTech schools. It graduates kids with Cisco Networking and Cyber Security certificates, EMT certificates, Licenses in any number of medical fields appropriate to a HS graduate like Medical Assisting, CNA, Pharmacy Tech, Physical Therapy Tech, Vet Assit, Dental Assit, ASE certified auto and diesel mechanics, welders certified in fancy gas and metals, 3D animation, web design, construction trades and much more. Over 40 programs some with intern requirements, that lead directly to a job the day you graduate from HS. More than half the kids I have spoken with in various programs say they WILL go to college, but want to work their way through as a video production guy and start their own business or do their undergrad working as a Dental Assit and then go to Dental school. Many may never make it to college, but they will have a decent, even highly paying job they can spend a lifetime in.

 

[Spekkio]

What I see as a parent is people with the means to do so moving to districts with good schools, or sending their kids to private school. Our political leaders at multiple levels have gutted public school districts to the point that people who can't afford to move are stuck with terrible schools. I don't have a great solution, but prioritizing educational spending and paying teachers more might be a start. It's certainly better than propagandizing schools, banning books, and paying teachers dirt. Better educate our population, and I think a lot of our problems might get better within a generation or so. It would be nice if we could have a collective political vision that looked that far ahead. [/rant]

I think that this is a bit of a broad brush. As a 'consumer' of modern public education:

• Math and science are way under-emphasized. My kids are told to read, read, read (not that they need it). Very few math concepts are introduced early in a child's education, and perhaps this is the root of America's lag in math and science scores.
• Based on the adult products we see, I think the American education system does a better job on teaching critical thinking and problem solving than other countries.
• Public education is primarily based on municipality. Some areas have tried to adopt more generous school zoning policies, but that drives people away when kids from the wrong side of the tracks enter the district in large numbers.
• (District dependent) I hate the move away from homework as a matter of routine. For hundreds of years we used it as a means to reinforce learning, but now apparently it's obsolete. Raising the BS flag there.
• The shift to digital learning tools is mostly bad. People retain information better when they write it down by hand. They have more endurance reading material when it's a physical book.
• I hate, hate, hate the shift toward 'FITREP style' report cards. They are meaningless, especially when teachers apply it with the same 'have to see right movement' as a fitrep. I don't want to see a 2 for 'progressing toward grade level' and get an explanation 'well, it's only October so I give all my students that score because they're not fully at X grade level. Your child is doing wonderful!' Give my kid a numerical or letter grade so I know how much information they actually retained and where their weak areas are.
• When I was a kid I had to show every assignment to my parents to get signed. Memories of my dad saying "I'm not signing it until it's right." "What's wrong with it?" "You tell me." Now teachers guard that shit like the holy grail, only to emerge on parent teacher conference day. No, you can't take any of it home to go over it with your child.
• COVID has really set things behind. My 5th grader's teacher won't look my wife in the eye after the parent teacher conference. Teacher explains how my daughter is doing wonderful. My wife responds with 'can you please assign grade level homework, particularly in math? giving her a packet where she has to write the time of day on a clock like a first grader is a waste of everyone's time.' At least he started assigning actual 5th grade work. Of note, she had just taken a state wide assessment and placed well above state standards in reading. In Math she was below state standards but in the top 20% of the district, so wife was pissed the teacher had no plan to address that gap. The main cause of her doing so poorly is that she was never introduced to adding / subtracting / reducing fractions in 4th grade thanks to remote learning.

 

[Swanee]

In Math she was below state standards but in the top 20% of the district, so wife was pissed the teacher had no plan to address that gap. The main cause of her doing so poorly is that she was never introduced to adding / subtracting / reducing fractions in 4th grade thanks to remote learning.

That's the teacher's fault as much as the squadron's schedule and training plan is the mid level Lt instructor's fault.

Teachers execute policy, they don't write it.

Your wife should be upset at the administrators, and take that up with the school board, not the teacher at the parent-teacher conference. The PTC is nothing more than fact sharing.

As far as the BS flag you're throwing up- perhaps the professionals of child learning theory have advanced in 400 years. 400 years ago formalized learning was pretty much only for the social elites and done mainly through churches (though there were a few universities around then... Oxford, William and Mary...). Maybe you should do something at home to enrich your child, as opposed to expected the schools to send something home for them to do. After all, you're 2v1 with a 5th grader, not 1v35.

Math and Science aren't the end all, be all, for education. I think our infatuation with STEM and our disdain for art is completely counter to what we value in not only our own society, but what we value historically in societies. We remember most civilizations for their cultural contributions in their art as much as their sciences. In many regards, the two are inseparable from each other. It's not a one or the other kind of thing.

 

[HSMPBR]

Math and Science aren't the end all, be all, for education. I think our infatuation with STEM and our disdain for art is completely counter to what we value in not only our own society, but what we value historically in societies. We remember most civilizations for their cultural contributions in their art as much as their sciences. In many regards, the two are inseparable from each other. It's not a one or the other kind of thing.

ASW is both an art and a science. ?

 

[Mirage]

That's the teacher's fault as much as the squadron's schedule and training plan is the mid level Lt instructor's fault.

Teachers execute policy, they don't write it.

Your wife should be upset at the administrators, and take that up with the school board, not the teacher at the parent-teacher conference. The PTC is nothing more than fact sharing.

As far as the BS flag you're throwing up- perhaps the professionals of child learning theory have advanced in 400 years. 400 years ago formalized learning was pretty much only for the social elites and done mainly through churches (though there were a few universities around then... Oxford, William and Mary...). Maybe you should do something at home to enrich your child, as opposed to expected the schools to send something home for them to do. After all, you're 2v1 with a 5th grader, not 1v35.

Math and Science aren't the end all, be all, for education. I think our infatuation with STEM and our disdain for art is completely counter to what we value in not only our own society, but what we value historically in societies. We remember most civilizations for their cultural contributions in their art as much as their sciences. In many regards, the two are inseparable from each other. It's not a one or the other kind of thing.

Valid points until your last paragraph, imo.

Are you aware how many people graduate with degrees in the liberal arts and can't find jobs utilizing what they learned, versus how many people graduate with STEM degrees and find themselves in the same predicament?

We, as demonstrated by the "free" market, do not need more art majors like we need computer scientists, engineers, etc. Also, one can be a fantastic artist on the level of Van Gogh or Mozart without ever attending a university, which is not true of architects, civil engineers, etc.

 

[wink]

STEM is so 2020. It is now STEAM. Science Technology Engineering ART and Math. Not kidding. So kids that like art and their teachers who teach it felt disrespected. That required adding them to the well advised and accepted emphasis on stem. Look for history and PE to be added soon as the education establishment can't grasp the fact that emphasizing all is not emphasizing anything.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

STEM is so 2020. It is now STEAM. Science Technology Engineering ART and Math. Not kidding. So kids that like art and their teachers who teach it felt disrespected. That required adding them to the well advised and accepted emphasis on stem. Look for history and PE to be added soon as the education establishment can't grasp the fact that emphasizing all is not emphasizing anything.

Several companies including the one I was at changed the name of the STEM Recruiting team to STEAM Recruiting team, but you know what changed nothing at all, they still strictly recruit those with degrees in Science, Tech, Eng, and Math so it was all to be PC as those guys could give a rats ass about some guy with his Art History degree.

Like you said if it keeps going the way it is going eventually may as well scrap the acronym and just go back to the way it was with people knowing that degrees in Science, Tech, Eng and Math will give you more options if you want to take them.

 

[Spekkio]

That's the teacher's fault as much as the squadron's schedule and training plan is the mid level Lt instructor's fault.

Teachers execute policy, they don't write it.

Your wife should be upset at the administrators, and take that up with the school board, not the teacher at the parent-teacher conference. The PTC is nothing more than fact sharing.

The school policy is to educate students to the common core standards. The teachers get to gether and write a common lesson plan for the grade based on those standards. They weren't following school policy when they assigned homework literally out of a first grade workbook, nor did they follow school policy when they missed topics that were supposed to be covered the previous year.

You glossed over the part where she got the desired outcome - grade level assignments - by addressing the issue at the source. Perhaps she could have taken your method to do a more Karen thing like taken a picture of it to post an outraged instagram post or emailed the superintendant that the teachers aren't following the state curriculum guidelines.

What COVID-19 has shown me is people in all professions will willingly stop doing their job responsibilities if they can blame it on something.

As far as the BS flag you're throwing up- perhaps the professionals of child learning theory have advanced in 400 years. 400 years ago formalized learning was pretty much only for the social elites and done mainly through churches (though there were a few universities around then... Oxford, William and Mary...).

What in the world does this have to do with teachers eschewing homework assignments?

Maybe you should do something at home to enrich your child, as opposed to expected the schools to send something home for them to do. After all, you're 2v1 with a 5th grader, not 1v35.

Nice assumption to think we don't work with our children. Also, your teacher:student ratio is way off, there are about 12-17 students per class in my kids' district.

But regardless, is it your assertion that it's my fault that the school did not teach kids grade level curriculum? Do you know people go to school for 6 years to learn how to effectively teach children new topics, and we didn't do that? You ever try teaching a 10 year old math topics that they know is beyond what is being covered in school?

The school is supposed to provide the material and assignments. My wife shouldn't have to go on Amazon to find a grade level workbook to figure out what she needs to attempt to teach our kids material to keep up with the state standards, and also deal with the headache that comes with trying to get a 10 year old to actually sit down and do something above and beyond what they know the teacher assigned. My wife has the resources to do that, and does so with varying level of effectiveness. Many families don't, both from a financial and a time aspect.

The homework policy isn't universal - I know parents in other districts or states who have a 'normal' amount of work being assigned on a daily basis. What happened is that some parents complained that the HW was too much when their kid was over-registered for 10 different extra-curriculurs, there is some educational research that says homework has diminishing returns, and teachers took that as an open door to do less work to create and grade assignments.

Math and Science aren't the end all, be all, for education. I think our infatuation with STEM and our disdain for art is completely counter to what we value in not only our own society, but what we value historically in societies.

I didn't say STEM is the end-all, be-all, nor did I express any disdain for any other topics. I stated that Math was under-emphasized, as evidenced by us lagging many other industrialized nations in performance on the subject.

 

[AIRMMCPORET]

I was a squadron XO during the 2016 presidential campaign. About once each week, one of the Sailors in the command would ask me what I thought about DJT, or Clinton, etc. I used that as a springboard to talk about the virtues of our democratic system of government, and how our pluralistic nature makes our nation strong and resilient. Never once did I reveal my own personal political leanings, or comment negatively or favorably about either candidate in any way. That is what our profession expects of

I was a squadron XO during the 2016 presidential campaign. About once each week, one of the Sailors in the command would ask me what I thought about DJT, or Clinton, etc. I used that as a springboard to talk about the virtues of our democratic system of government, and how our pluralistic nature makes our nation strong and resilient. Never once did I reveal my own personal political leanings, or comment negatively or favorably about either candidate in any way. That is what our profession expects of us.

Were you disappointed when your candidate lost??