Should I stay or should I go? Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Love HSC.

[Hair Warrior]

 

[IKE]

Don't forget that there are other SAR assets around the CSG that can help: ships, boats, and helos. For a CVW the most likely case for a SAR would be 1-2 people from a crew that has to punch for a hornet. Worst case would be if a COD goes down. I'd think with HSC having 4 to make 1 the odds of needing a 60R to cover SAR are slim. And if it has to then it's be over to the Boss to figure out how much SAR he needs for routine ops.

Unless they've changed it, the document and plans I've seen show 3 birds on the CVN, so it's 3™1, or really 3™2 (PG+A30), unless they drop the A30 req.

 

[Pags]

Unless they've changed it, the document and plans I've seen show 3 birds on the CVN, so it's 3™1, or really 3™2 (PG+A30), unless they drop the A30 req.

Right on. I know nothing more other what is being discussed on here. LHD was 2tm1 forever until they went to 3tm1 but that wasn't done for SAR and instead was done to allow the HSC Det to do SUW. LHD did not have an A+30 requirement (which drove our former HS Big XO crazy). With 3 birds on board you could have done an A+30 on the aircraft side; not sure if the Det manning would have supported it but sounds like Dets have gotten bigger (not sure where SuppO is putting all those bodies, but I'm sure they could always live in a CONEX in a V like onboard LCS).

In the end it will just depend what CNAF, the CSG, and CVN CO want out of the HSC Det. After having watched this discussion for 10+yrs I think it's pretty clear that those folks primarily want SAR and LOG. Which can be easily handled by a 3 bird Det.

 

[DanMa1156]

When are all these changes expected to take place? I'm expecting to start my HSC DH tour within the next year to a CVW squadron. I looked at a MAP - the last version I have was before these decisions were made - that still shows I'm looking at 2x CVN deployments wiht an 8 bird Sierra squadron on board. Should I expect that my squadron will be consolidating/operating like this in my time horizon, or probably not (i.e. the next 3.5 years)?

 

[SynixMan]

When are all these changes expected to take place? I'm expecting to start my HSC DH tour within the next year to a CVW squadron. I looked at a MAP - the last version I have was before these decisions were made - that still shows I'm looking at 2x CVN deployments wiht an 8 bird Sierra squadron on board. Should I expect that my squadron will be consolidating/operating like this in my time horizon, or probably not (i.e. the next 3.5 years)?

The message traffic had the schedule of consolidation. Not sure if it’s been accelerated since July.

 

[DanMa1156]

The message traffic had the schedule of consolidation. Not sure if it’s been accelerated since July.

Oh, I never even saw the message traffic.

 

[hscs]

Who sent the message? Think a number missed it.

I am surprised by the 3 x a/c vice 4. Kind of hard to do a phase / deal with a hanger bay queen and also meet mission with 3.

My real curiosity is with ROC/POE - how much changes?

 

[IKE]

Who sent the message? Think a number missed it.

I am surprised by the 3 x a/c vice 4. Kind of hard to do a phase / deal with a hanger bay queen and also meet mission with 3.

My real curiosity is with ROC/POE - how much changes?

That was my biggest question. You can plus up the manning over an LHD-style det to cover SAR requirements, but how do you do phases, long-term downers, etc.

I'll happily forward the HSC internal memo (NIPR) and latest MAP (SIPR) to work emails; just PM me.

 

[loadtoad]

Who sent the message? Think a number missed it.

I am surprised by the 3 x a/c vice 4. Kind of hard to do a phase / deal with a hanger bay queen and also meet mission with 3.

My real curiosity is with ROC/POE - how much changes?

From my understanding the decisions for the size of the det was driven by Air Wing of the Future (more EA-18s, E-2D, MQ-25, CMV-22B) and the lack of real-estate left for the helicopters. CV NATOPS and ROC/POE will be re-written to reflect the smaller footprint on what a three bird det can support.

Like you, I will be curious to see how much changes.

 

[Hair Warrior]

From my understanding the decisions for the size of the det was driven by Air Wing of the Future (more EA-18s, E-2D, MQ-25, CMV-22B) and the lack of real-estate left for the helicopters. CV NATOPS and ROC/POE will be re-written to reflect the smaller footprint on what a three bird det can support.

If that is true, would it be practical to have the 3x Sierras on the CVN (which I understand used to be 5x) be augmented by turning one of the DDGs into a “plane guard DDG” w/ 2x Sierras instead of Romeos? Yes, it would reduce ASW capability, and I realize the DDGs aren’t always adjacent to the CVN, but there’s your plane guard det w/ 5x Sierras.

 

[red_stang65]

If that is true, would it be practical to have the 3x Sierras on the CVN (which I understand used to be 5x) be augmented by turning one of the DDGs into a “plane guard DDG” w/ 2x Sierras instead of Romeos? Yes, it would reduce ASW capability, and I realize the DDGs aren’t always adjacent to the CVN, but there’s your plane guard det w/ 5x Sierras.

One of the issues with Sierras on the small boys is traversing. Without RAST, your options are limited, and sea state limits for those options are fairly constrained.

 

[Gatordev]

If that is true, would it be practical to have the 3x Sierras on the CVN (which I understand used to be 5x) be augmented by turning one of the DDGs into a “plane guard DDG” w/ 2x Sierras instead of Romeos? Yes, it would reduce ASW capability, and I realize the DDGs aren’t always adjacent to the CVN, but there’s your plane guard det w/ 5x Sierras.

Then where would the Romeos go? They still need to have a home and if loadtoads comment is accurate (which I'm not arguing), then there's still no space for the excess Rs.

For the Seirra guys, is there a RAST interface (read: hole) in the Sierra, like there was in a Fox? I don't remember seeing one, but it's not something I ever thought to look for.

ETA: Simu-post with red-stang65. Sounds like no.

 

[Jim123]

One of the issues with Sierras on the small boys is traversing. Without RAST, your options are limited, and sea state limits for those options are fairly constrained.

Just kidding.

Besides, NAVAIR would figure out a way to make it cost ten times as much, break all the time, but be ready for service in 2025 2030 ???

 

[Hair Warrior]

Then where would the Romeos go? They still need to have a home and if loadtoads comment is accurate (which I'm not arguing), then there's still no space for the excess Rs.

For the Seirra guys, is there a RAST interface (read: hole) in the Sierra, like there was in a Fox? I don't remember seeing one, but it's not something I ever thought to look for.

ETA: Simu-post with red-stang65. Sounds like no.

? Sounds like a no. Also, it would be a huge cost and tradeoff to dedicate a DDG to “extra plane guards” and just lose those Romeos. That puts a lot of blood & treasure out there at sea just bc we lost parking space on the CVN. (But as stated, Sierras-on-DDGs has its own issues)

 

[red_stang65]

Then where would the Romeos go? They still need to have a home and if loadtoads comment is accurate (which I'm not arguing), then there's still no space for the excess Rs.

For the Seirra guys, is there a RAST interface (read: hole) in the Sierra, like there was in a Fox? I don't remember seeing one, but it's not something I ever thought to look for.

ETA: Simu-post with red-stang65. Sounds like no.

Not in the same way as the F/H, but there is a Sierra Traversing Apparatus (STrAp) that can replace the cargo hook and uses the RAST. It’s very similar to what’s used when transporting the Sierra on a C17, but with some modifications. It’s discussed in NATOPS, but not sure how prevalent it is or who manages it (Wing vs squadron, etc).