Shore tour options, Masters degrees, and their effects on careers...

[nfo2b]

besides - after I'm done with the Navy if I find myself in a postion where I will need to have a masters, I'm going to kick my own ass

and

As for post-retirement, if you make it to command and beyond, contractors will scoop you up regardless of what kind of degrees you have.

An MS is not about a resume bullet for me. It's about continuing my education. Even with my goal of a long-term military career, this is important for me, for reasons that aren't germane to this conversation.

See, here's a fellow who's not even winged yet and wants command. If I give him whatever "good boy" points I've acquired over the last 7 years to help him out, can I PLEEEEEAASE have a "professional aviator" path like the RAF has???

Not too sure what you're getting at here, but I'd like to make one thing clear: my long-term goal of obtaining command is not just the whimsical aspiration of a young, naive, non-winged pre-nugget. This ambition of mine, in it's present form, is the culmination of 12 years of Naval enlisted experience. (Speaking of which, how many "good boy" points do you suspect I've acquired in that time? Or are enlisted "good boy" points not transferrable? ) The many personal and professional revelations, experiences, and epiphanies that I've acquired along the way have imbued in me a strong desire to have my own command someday. And again, the details of this are personal and not germane here.
So I'll repeat what I said before. While I have a great deal of respect for the cumulative wisdom, knowledge and experience of you guys, and I am certain that you know what you're talking about, I still firmly believe that I will get my MS, and I will have command one day (God willing). (Now I just gotta start figuring out a way to get my MS w/o going to an NOB billet!)

 

[TurnandBurn55]

Dude, Kolja wasn't making fun of you. He's making fun of the Navy for the fact that he has to do all that same box-checking type stuff and can't just fly... despite the fact that he has no interest in having a command the way you do...

Sighh...

Speaking of "Bug", who is heading for Hook '05?

Well, Hook '04 was a fine time... in spite of a few of my compatriots almost starting a brawl at Bug/Roach after they stole some Hornet squadron's drinking flag... haha, good times...

 

[Kolja]

and
An MS is not about a resume bullet for me. It's about continuing my education. Even with my goal of a long-term military career, this is important for me, for reasons that aren't germane to this conversation.
Not too sure what you're getting at here, but I'd like to make one thing clear: my long-term goal of obtaining command is not just the whimsical aspiration of a young, naive, non-winged pre-nugget. This ambition of mine, in it's present form, is the culmination of 12 years of Naval enlisted experience. (Speaking of which, how many "good boy" points do you suspect I've acquired in that time? Or are enlisted "good boy" points not transferrable? ) The many personal and professional revelations, experiences, and epiphanies that I've acquired along the way have imbued in me a strong desire to have my own command someday. And again, the details of this are personal and not germane here.
So I'll repeat what I said before. While I have a great deal of respect for the cumulative wisdom, knowledge and experience of you guys, and I am certain that you know what you're talking about, I still firmly believe that I will get my MS, and I will have command one day (God willing). (Now I just gotta start figuring out a way to get my MS w/o going to an NOB billet!)

Like TurnandBurn said, I don't mean to come off criticizing your goals. It's good that you know what you want, and I hope you get your command. The navy obviously needs skippers - I'm just not terribly anxious to be one of them. No judgement implied (other than a good natured "better you than me!"). Some folks WANT to do it and that's great - I fall into the category that looks at it a price to pay for one more tour in the cockpit.

The Professional Aviator thing I mentioned is something the RAF has that has had me drooling with jealousy ever since a Flt Lt explained it to me. You go in knowing you will never be a commanding officer. You also go in with the knowlege that will never have to leave the cockpit. You bounce between front-line squadrons and non-deploying yet still flying jobs. You do this for an entire career. Then you retire. For me personally it's a winning propoistion all the way around.

Couched in terms of continuing education, the masters bit makes more sense too. I can completely understand that - albeit my continuing education these days is reading a Hane's manual for my Dodge and the service manual for my Harley just for fun, but again, not terribly germane.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I was under the impression a ROTC tour was a "see ya, I'm out..." tour... whereas a VT tour "hey, I still want in... just couldn't get a RAG instructor slot for whatever reason"

Is it really that two-tiered?

To get a a ROTC tour as a SWO, you need to commit to doing two DH tours (post ROTC tour of course). A lot of guys were using the tour to get their masters degree and then punch out. Seeing that this does make an impression on midshipman, the SWO community wanted to get more career minded folks in these slots. Yea, this is out of the mainstream navy (and especially SWO community), it still provides a great opportunity to get the masters knocked out.

 

[nfo2b]

Like TurnandBurn said, I don't mean to come off criticizing your goals. It's good that you know what you want, and I hope you get your command. The navy obviously needs skippers - I'm just not terribly anxious to be one of them. No judgement implied (other than a good natured "better you than me!"). Some folks WANT to do it and that's great - I fall into the category that looks at it a price to pay for one more tour in the cockpit.

The Professional Aviator thing I mentioned is something the RAF has that has had me drooling with jealousy ever since a Flt Lt explained it to me. You go in knowing you will never be a commanding officer. You also go in with the knowlege that will never have to leave the cockpit. You bounce between front-line squadrons and non-deploying yet still flying jobs. You do this for an entire career. Then you retire. For me personally it's a winning propoistion all the way around.

Couched in terms of continuing education, the masters bit makes more sense too. I can completely understand that - albeit my continuing education these days is reading a Hane's manual for my Dodge and the service manual for my Harley just for fun, but again, not terribly germane.

No worries, and I didn't take any offense to what you said. My lack of understanding of the Naval Aviator culture is too often too transparent. Just clarifying my point to try to get more input on the original topic of this thread.
And the Pro-Aviator thing sounds incredibly attractive. To be honest, given the option, I'd certainly seriously consider a career full of flying over a typical command career any day. It would be a tough decision, given my desire to command vs. my desire to fly. It's just that based upon what I've gathered by asking around and reading these forums, it didn't seem to me that this was possible or realistic. The comments made by you and Fred on this topic notwithstanding, everything else that I've heard/read tells me that at some point, you have to give up (other than the occasional check-flights) the cockpit for "senior" brass type duties, and being a career oriented Sailor/Future Aviator, I had made the decision to make command my goal. In my own little idealized world, I'd do both--fly (NFO-style) my whole career, capped by a command of some sort. But since the former is apparently not highly probable, I feel that I should base my career decisions on achieving the latter.
Anyways, I alluded to the "present state" of my ambitions, alluding to the fact that I must allow some flexibility and adaptability into my goals. So should I discover the enchanted path to a career full 'o flyin', well, let's just say that I might need to adjust my priorities a little.
But all of this is so far away...just gotta graduate first...then flight school...then winging...then...???

 

[Kolja]

It's just that based upon what I've gathered by asking around and reading these forums, it didn't seem to me that this was possible or realistic.

Unfortunately, you are correct. beyond my own personal preferences, I think the argument can be made that the navy is cheating itself on that account, but that's a whole different discussion...

 

[Brett327]

As far as Bug Roach-
A) concur, bring back flying LDO.
B) As I'm pretty sure I can spare the 55 minute drive to the Nugget, I suspect I will be there.

I'll be at Hook - wearing a lampshade, no doubt!

Brett

 

[lance]

A career flying.....RAF kicks ass

 

[Kolja]

A career flying.....RAF kicks ass

and great folks to go drinking with.

Not terribly germane, but Meat DID bring up Hook, so it was bound to enter the conversation one way or another.

 

[Rg9]

To get a a ROTC tour as a SWO, you need to commit to doing two DH tours (post ROTC tour of course). A lot of guys were using the tour to get their masters degree and then punch out. Seeing that this does make an impression on midshipman, the SWO community wanted to get more career minded folks in these slots. Yea, this is out of the mainstream navy (and especially SWO community), it still provides a great opportunity to get the masters knocked out.

So THAT'S why 6 of our 7 officers on staff when I got commissioned were in aviation!

 

[caeli]

I'm a little lost with these acronyms - so what do NOB and DH stand for?

 

[zab1001]

NOB = Not Observed. Meaning you aren't ranked against other officers on your FITREP. Normally because you're the only officer there. Kind of silly to rank a guy number one of a field of one. (explained in layman's terms)

DH = Department Head

 

[IT1toOfficer]

Non Observed is used when the reporting cycle is less then 90 days. If for some reason your TAD on leave, just checked in, or whatever, if you have less then 90 days to be evaluated you will get a NOB.

 

[virtu050]

All of your time in flight school (API to FRS) is NOB.

 

[Kolja]

All of your time in flight school (API to FRS) is NOB.

you're also an ensign or JG. Unless you literally kill someone, no selection board is really going to care what happens at that point in your career.