Shooting debrief discussion

[exNavyOffRec]

Interesting- is there any numbers that normalize this kind of data? Do you care to expound more?

I'm also interested in how police work together? Everyone here has kind of said, "Well, all bets are off when you're in a scuffle" but isn't that like saying, "All bets are off when you're BFMing?" We still practice as a team so we know what to do, and so we make 1+1 = at least 2, if not more.

In this scenario did 1+1 = <1?

And I'm not saying it was their fault. If they aren't frequently trained to a measurable standard you can't expect someone to perform in the field. That's a systemic fault that failed these guys and could have led to the shooting. (My ASO had again...)

I would think in a city setting that they would get training on working together, many years ago my training was all about "you are on your own" I was in a rural county, it was not uncommon to be 20 plus miles between me and my backup via 2 lane county roads, often backup was in the form of an off-duty deputy who lived close to where you were. It was made clear that if you were in a fight and he was going for your gun that one option was holding onto your primary with one hand while pulling out your backup to shoot the suspect. The nice thing is that in 2 years I was there we never had an officer involved shooting, or an officer involved fight, any situation was able to be de-escalated by either talking or the suspect realizing when the other officers arrived there was no other option but to give up.

I did ride as the second in a 2 man car sometimes, we basically talked through how we would do things, but it was not formal training, and when I did ride as the second it was always with the same deputy as we knew how each other would react.

 

[mad dog]

Here is food for thought. Women officers frequently handle these things a bit different. It is a female thing...

Agreed. My former patrol partner is female. We were hired together in 2004 as well as the same age [40] when we were sworn in. She had this knack for de-escalating situations...especially DVs. Calm, cool, collected...I admired her for that since I tended to be rather impatient regarding DVs...and other situations. She and I had a pretty good deal going while on patrol...she would do the talking [de-escalating] and do most of the report writing while I provided backup and drove the police vehicle. She hated driving the police vehicle since she was afraid she was going to get in an accident. Anyway, she’s a Captain now with the Cincinnati Police...and I wouldn’t be surprised if she became Cincinnati’s first female Chief...she’s pretty freaking sharp.

My former patrol partner on the left and myself on the right...my last day with the Cincinnati Police in 2006...

 

[OscarMyers]

Kind of along the scope of understanding these types of events. Has anyone ever done a ride along with their local PD? If so what was the experience like and was it worth your time?

 

[Pags]

Kind of along the scope of understanding these types of events. Has anyone ever done a ride along with their local PD? If so what was the experience like and was it worth your time?

I havent, but I've considered it after the recent discussions on here. My neighbor is a local Smokey.

 

[mad dog]

I haven't, but I've considered it...

...and if you do it...don’t fuck with the sireeeen or the cherries & berries. ?

 

[wink]

Interesting- is there any numbers that normalize this kind of data? Do you care to expound more?

I am sure, but haven't seen anything formal or academic. Like mad dog said, it is common to see a different approach, but it is all anecdotal that I have seen. Can't believe it hadn't been studied.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

...and if you do it...don’t fuck with the sireeeen or the cherries & berries. ?

When the Sheriffs secretary wanted a ride along the first thing the Sgt told her when she got into the car was that if the shit hit the fan he had a spare handgun in the glove box. I am not sure if he was kidding with her or just did it to mess with her, but he did have spare gun in there.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I am sure, but haven't seen anything formal or academic. Like mad dog said, it is common to see a different approach, but it is all anecdotal that I have seen. Can't believe it hadn't been studied.

Pure speculation but maybe it is that most aggressors are male and that males tend to see women as more of a maternal figure?

 

[wink]

Well CHAZ, or is it CHOP now, demand black cops investigate black suspects. Sooo why not female cops in Patrol and crime suppression duties and males in traffic control, extraditions, motor pool, PAO, block watch, etc. ?

 

[hdr777]

...and if you do it...don’t fuck with the sireeeen or the cherries & berries. ?

So in our ambulances we have a foot pedal for the air horn in the passenger seat. One of my first times ridding up front was to a call at a nursing home in the middle of the night... I may have accidentally woken up a large amount of old people because I stepped on it for a very excessive amount of time without realizing what I was doing

I always warned other people/patient families riding up front about it after that one

 

[xmid]

Anyone that advocates calling someone a cab or letting them walk home is out of touch with the current reality (looking at you @taxi1). I'd wager that the number of times that happens in todays environment is an outlier, and are a failure in policing when they do. Most states have a catch and release policy that requires you to sit in jail for a period of time to sober up. Letting someone go when they could get in a car again and kill someone or go beat their wife etc. sets the department up for extreme liability, both in litigation and public opinion. DUI has steadily increased in view of severity for decades. The days of the cops calling you a cab, allowing a relative to come pick you up, or driving you home, are far gone. It's a whimsical attempt in this case to form a narrative for an agenda. I don't believe the color of the man's skin in this case would have had any effect on the outcome. They would not have been calling a white businessman in a suit that was passed out drunk in the Wendy's drive through a cab home.

 

[Swanee]

Anyone that advocates calling someone a cab or letting them walk home is out of touch with the current reality (looking at you @taxi1)

I don't want to speak for him, but I believe he was relaying what some officials in Atlanta said they should have done... which is crap.

 

[Brett327]

I don't want to speak for him, but I believe he was relaying what some officials in Atlanta said they have done... which is crap.

This seems like a Pollyanna anecdote from 1962. I’ve had Sailors charged with (but not convicted of) DUI for sleeping in the backseat of a parked car, and for riding a bicycle while impaired. The threshold for this crime is ridiculously low.

 

[Swanee]

This seems like a Pollyanna anecdote from 1962. I’ve had Sailors charged with (but not convicted of) DUI for sleeping in the backseat of a parked car, and for riding a bicycle while impaired. The threshold for this crime is ridiculously low.

I should have said "should have"

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-against-rayshard-brooks-unwarranted-n1231043

Cedric Alexander, the former police chief of DeKalb County, east of Atlanta, said the encounter Friday night outside a Wendy's restaurant should never have escalated into a use-of-force situation.
Alexander suggested that the officers who found Brooks, 27, asleep in his car in the restaurant's drive-through could have called him an Uber or given him a ride home instead of taking him into custody.

Again, that's crap.

 

[taxi1]

(looking at you @taxi1).

Well, I’ve seen it with my own eyes, the retired Police Chief suggested it as an option, and this defense attorney has this to say (state of Washington)

First Offense DUI – What You Need To Know After The Arrest Has Happened

Learn what to do as a first-time DUI offender from a DUI attorney who has years of experience to offer. Great representation can make all the difference.

www.russellandhill.com

For a first-time DUI, an officer does not have to book you into jail and oftentimes, if you are respectful to the officer, he will bring you home after he has processed the DUI so that you can at least sleep in your own bed.

In Pennsylvania

Even if you were not placed under arrest, you can still be charged with DUI in Pennsylvania.

Some more “crap” from Cedric Alexander, former Police Chief of Dekalb County, which has over 1000 employees so it’s not Mayberry RFD.

But I think these are opportunities that we have to take some time and doesn't always have to be around an arrest. It's not like he was out on the road driving recklessly, putting someone at risk. But it could have been very easily, let's drop you off at home. Let's call a Uber. Can you have someone to pick you up? And we know police officers do that. I did it as an officer. I know officers that worked for me who's done it. So it's using discretion. And here, again, in the climate that we're in right now, I think that would have been a more appropriate thing to do.

Atlanta Man's Killing Sparks Outrage Over Police Using Deadly Force

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to Cedric Alexander, former police chief of Georgia's DeKalb County, about an incident over the weekend in Atlanta, where a black man was shot and killed by police.

www.npr.org