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Ship Photo of the Day

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
From reporting by The Diplomat.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/12/japan-to-convert-izumo-class-into-f-35-carrying-aircraft-carrier/
https://thediplomat.com/2018/02/source-japans-largest-warship-was-designed-as-aircraft-carrier/

"As I reported in May, a study conducted by the Izumo’s builder, Marine United Corporation (MUC), earlier this year concluded that warship, along with its sister ship, JS Kaga, can be turned into aircraft carriers. The carrier has reportedly been designed to operate STOVL fighter jets all along and requires only minor modifications to accommodate the F-35B. As I wrote in February:
[A] consensus was privately reached at the inception of the Izumo project that the warships should be designed allowing for a future conversion into an F-35B-carrying naval platform. (…)
Modifications on the Izumo-class, among other things, would require the installation of a ski-jump. Contrary to earlier reports, (…) [the] flight deck has already been coated with paint that can withstand the exhaust heat generated during F-35B landings and takeoffs. Additionally, the aircraft elevators, connecting the flight deck with the hangar, were reportedly specifically designed to accommodate the F-35B."

It might make more sense militarily to use them as ASW helicopter carriers as part of a US battlegroup, but if the US steps back and Japan is forced to keep sea lanes open, it would be prudent to have the option of carrying fixed wing aircraft.





JASDF to get F-35Bs...I wonder what the end goal of a STOVL a/c is?
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
Plenty of open source reporting to lead you down that road at this point. Too lazy to search, but such headlines have been posted here already in the last few years.
It may have SLIGHTLY sarcastic...maybe you'll note that the post I quoted was one from a while back about early discussions on how Izumo was being considered for conversion and one of the counters at the time was "but the J's don't have a plan to buy F-35s!!!!" One could even think that I may have planned that direct link to close out the discussion on the , "but what airplane could the Japanese EVER use on an LHD?"
 

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
It may have SLIGHTLY sarcastic...maybe you'll note that the post I quoted was one from a while back about early discussions on how Izumo was being considered for conversion and one of the counters at the time was "but the J's don't have a plan to buy F-35s!!!!" One could even think that I may have planned that direct link to close out the discussion on the , "but what airplane could the Japanese EVER use on an LHD?"
Gotcha! Thanks for the post. Very glad to have them enter the fold.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Buying B's is a good thing and ought to make their air forces more survivable but a few token B's on an LPH isn't going to be much more than a showpiece for either Japan or South Korea.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator

JASDF to get F-35Bs...I wonder what the end goal of a STOVL a/c is?
This was in the news yesterday: Marines might be flying the F-35 off of the Kaga and the Izumo.

https://news.usni.org/2019/08/23/marines-considering-flying-u-s-f-35bs-off-of-japans-largest-warships

After seeing that, I went back and checked a few more items to see how that class of ship compares to others in regards to hangar space.
According to wikipedia and google:

Queen Elizabeth class (UK): 55,990 sq ft (509' x 110')
Izumo class (Japan): 44,000 sq ft (550' x 80')
Cavour class (Italy): 30,360 sq ft (440' x 69')
America class LHA (US): 28,142 sq ft
Wasp class LHD (US): 18,745 sq ft

That still leaves out aviation fuel storage and other items such as deck strengthening and heat resistance, but it was an interesting metric.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Evolution of the Battleship.

Was looking at some ships stopped by the Washington Treaty and remembered this photo. What is listed here as BB-49 USS South Dakota is incorrect. That ship (and class of 6 battleships) was scrapped during construction, easy way to tell it apart was that it had 4 triple 16" turrets. It is actually BB-55 USS North Carolina (at 728 ft) and underneath where it is listed as BB-55 USS North Carolina is actually the shorter (680 ft) 4 ship new South Dakota class, starting with BB-57 USS South Dakota.

USS South Dakota BB-49 was the lead ship of 6 battleships that were scrapped / stopped by the Washington Naval Treaty. Basically an enlarged Colorado class, it mounted 12 16"/50 caliber Mark II rifles firing 2,240 lb shells. Secondary armament was 16 6"cannons mounted in casemates.
The South Dakota was stopped when it was roughly 38% complete and then scrapped. Other ships at this time include the battlecruisers Lexington and Saratoga which became carriers. Interesting difference between the South Dakota class battleships and the Lexington class battlecruisers is that the battleships were 684 ft long and had 60,000 HP for 23 knots but the battlecruisers were 874 ft in length and had 180,000 HP for 33 knots.

22918
The ships of this class, whose construction was canceled in 1922 under the terms of the Naval Limitations Treaty, were:
South Dakota (BB-49);
Indiana (BB-50);
Montana (BB-51);
North Carolina (BB-52);
Iowa (BB-53);
Massachusetts (BB-54).

22919

Scene in the Naval Gun Shop, Washington, D.C. 10 February 1922. 16-inch guns under construction. "Shop is idle today, employees numbering 1350 having been laid off yesterday." (Result of Naval Disarmament Treaty.)

22920
View from aft looking forward of the South Dakota (BB-49) at the New York Navy Yard, 10 March 1922.
Note the canvas covered turrets.

22921
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Thought it would be interesting to take a look at the original design of the USS Saratoga, one of the Lexington class battlecruisers. It was mentioned that the Iowa class battleships might have been the zenith of warship design during WW2, the Lexington class might have been even more impressive for its time. When battleships were all under 700 ft in length, this battlecruiser was approaching 900 ft and supposed to make between 33 and 35 knots.

Very interesting wikipedia article concerning all of the challenges the engineers faced and the multiple design changes: from 10x14" cannons (strangely enough with the 2 gun turrets being the "A" and "Z" while the 3 gun turrets "B" and "Y" were superfiring above and inside) to 8x16" cannons and then finally to an aircraft carrier. If they had been completed, these battlecruisers would have been bigger, faster and more heavily armed than the HMS Hood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexington-class_battlecruiser

22925

Incomplete hull, looking forward, at the New York Shipbuilding Company shipyard, Camden, New Jersey, 8 March 1922. Construction had been suspended, pending her conversion to an aircraft carrier. Note barbette structures resting on blocks on her deck.

22926
Contemporary photograph of a painting by Louise Larned, 1922, depicting the definitive design of the Lexington class, whose construction was cancelled under the Washington Naval Limitations Treaty

22927
A painting of the Lexington class' original planned configuration

22928
A painting that depicts the Lexington class' definitive design, 1919

22929
16"/50 Mark 2 gun on display in Washington Navy Yard
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
Thought it would be interesting to take a look at the original design of the USS Saratoga, one of the Lexington class battlecruisers. It was mentioned that the Iowa class battleships might have been the zenith of warship design during WW2, the Lexington class might have been even more impressive for its time. When battleships were all under 700 ft in length, this battlecruiser was approaching 900 ft and supposed to make between 33 and 35 knots.

Very interesting wikipedia article concerning all of the challenges the engineers faced and the multiple design changes: from 10x14" cannons (strangely enough with the 2 gun turrets being the "A" and "Z" while the 3 gun turrets "B" and "Y" were superfiring above and inside) to 8x16" cannons and then finally to an aircraft carrier. If they had been completed, these battlecruisers would have been bigger, faster and more heavily armed than the HMS Hood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexington-class_battlecruiser

View attachment 22925

Incomplete hull, looking forward, at the New York Shipbuilding Company shipyard, Camden, New Jersey, 8 March 1922. Construction had been suspended, pending her conversion to an aircraft carrier. Note barbette structures resting on blocks on her deck.

View attachment 22926
Contemporary photograph of a painting by Louise Larned, 1922, depicting the definitive design of the Lexington class, whose construction was cancelled under the Washington Naval Limitations Treaty

View attachment 22927
A painting of the Lexington class' original planned configuration

View attachment 22928
A painting that depicts the Lexington class' definitive design, 1919

View attachment 22929
16"/50 Mark 2 gun on display in Washington Navy Yard
It's a good thing they became carriers; battlecruisers were a failed experiment as shown by Jutland and Denmark Strait.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
It's a good thing they became carriers; battlecruisers were a failed experiment as shown by Jutland and Denmark Strait.
Not disagreeing, although I would also argue you don't put a battlecruiser up against a battleship. (Denmark Strait) Jutland was more complex as the German battlecruisers fared much better than their British counterparts - the 4 remaining German battlecruisers in fact charged the 18 dreadnoughts of the British battleline and although very heavily damaged did not explode: design differences, faulty cordite stowage, and different tactics. Fascinating battle.

Good video

 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
IJN Hayate. One of 9 Kamikaze class destroyers, she was the first Japanese surface warship sunk by the US - not by the Navy but by the Marine Corps - artillery at that. At the Battle of Wake Island, the commander of the Marine garrison, Major (eventually Brigadier General) Devereux held his fire until the Hayate approached to within 4,000 - 4,500 yards of the shore. Battery L was armed with six 5"/51 caliber cannons (originally from the USS Texas) and scored several direct hits on the Hayate, exploding either its magazines or torpedoes, sinking the destroyer within several minutes.

Length: 336' 3" Beam: 29' 10" Displacement: 1,750 tons
38,500 HP gave 37.5 knots
Armament: 4 (4x1) 4.7"/45 caliber cannons, 3 twin 21" torpedo tubes
Commissioned: 21 Dec 1925 Sunk: 11 Dec 1941


22958
Imperial Japanese Navy destroyer Hayate on trials, circa 1925.

22959
Lead ship of the class Kamikaze underway on 23 December 1922.

22957
5"/51 caliber gun on Texas 1914
 
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