Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps claims pay cuts would raise discipline

[Flash]

....and that number would also assume said E-3 is entitled to BAH.

....and how many E-3s do you know live off base?

A single LCpl iving in the barracks makes around $26k a year before taxes. Single Cpl and Sgts are also now required to stay in the barracks as well. That number is pretty generous and doesn't really reflect reality. I don't think there is going to be a huge morale issue, but I will say that the standard of living for Marines in the foreseeable future is going to get a whole lot shittier.

And yet pays no rent and doesn't have to pay for a lot of his/her food either, that is why it is 'equivalent to' $40k in most cases. I didn't know if any single E-3's that didn't stay on base but that was the example used so I went with it, and that is why I said they got a chit as well.

 

[Hotdogs]

And yet pays no rent and doesn't have to pay for a lot of his/her food either, that is why it is 'equivalent to' $40k in most cases.

...and yet has to deal with random health and comfort inspections, field days every week, no chicks staying the night, and the duty annoying the shit out of him while he's playing Call of Duty and drinking Busch Light. Hardly what I call "equivalent." However you want to twist it - it's not straight up $40k for an E-3. Unless you're in the USAF dorm and rate a single room and kitchenette - then we can start talking. Chow Hall food, in terms of quality for what that "$40k" will get you, should have a damn Pf Chang inside of it, not Grade D mystery meat and powdered eggs. Just my opinion.

 

[BigRed389]

...and yet has to deal with random health and comfort inspections, field days every week, no chicks staying the night, and the duty annoying the shit out of him while he's playing Call of Duty and drinking Busch Light. Hardly what I call "equivalent." However you want to twist it - it's not straight up $40k for an E-3. Unless you're in the USAF dorm and rate a single room and kitchenette - then we can start talking. Chow Hall food, in terms of quality for what that "$40k" will get you, should have a damn Pf Chang inside of it, not Grade D mystery meat and powdered eggs. Just my opinion.

I wonder how much a civilian would pay to live onboard in a ship's enlisted berthing.

Oh wait, it'd probably be more like how much would they pay NOT to live in berthing.

 

[Flash]

...and yet has to deal with random health and comfort inspections, field days every week, no chicks staying the night, and the duty annoying the shit out of him while he's playing Call of Duty and drinking Busch Light. Hardly what I call "equivalent." However you want to twist it - it's not straight up $40k for an E-3. Unless you're in the USAF dorm and rate a single room and kitchenette - then we can start talking. Chow Hall food, in terms of quality for what that "$40k" will get you, should have a damn Pf Chang inside of it, not Grade D mystery meat and powdered eggs. Just my opinion.

What he doesn't have to deal with is paying rent/mortgage, utility bills and groceries unless you count bags of chips and beer as pert of a comprehensive meal plan. Living in barracks ain't fun but it is a free roof over your head and that is saying a lot.

 

[Spekkio]

Straight up, the senior enlisted member (or Officer) of any service, let alone the USMC which has been in the thick of OEF/OIF over the last decade, should not go before Congress and testify that 'we never had it so good' and 'lower pay will add to discipline.' That is deplorable. His job is to advocate for enlisted Marines and he's not doing that by offering no resistance toward a reduction in pay, even if that reduction comes in the form of allowing inflation to overtake annual CPI raises. It's like going to the car dealership and saying "yea, this car is a great value for the sticker price," except he's doing it with hundreds of thousands of people's paychecks.

If you want to talk about misleading, calculators that say an E-3 'makes' over $1,000/mo for living in the barracks when a shared studio apartment + utilities could be had for $300-400, and then adding a tax advantage into that, is misleading. In reality, the number is closer to $30-32k, which is about $15/hour if they worked a 40 hour work week. And we all know that they work many more hours than that. All this really is is 'me-too' ism: Some guy can't find a decent paying job after wasting his college education getting C's and smoking weed, so he points to people who make a living doing something that he might not agree with or might not be willing to do, ergo they are overpaid.

EDIT: Also, where is this mythical new equipment that people keep quoting that will make everyone's life easier? That's right, it's an empty promise. What they're really doing is trimming pay to subsidize the cost of bad contracts; they're not going to actually acquire better equipment such as shipboard laptops that cost under $1,000 and can boot in under 10 minutes.

 

[whitesoxnation]

What he doesn't have to deal with is paying rent/mortgage, utility bills and groceries unless you count bags of chips and beer as pert of a comprehensive meal plan. Living in barracks ain't fun but it is a free roof over your head and that is saying a lot.

So, when was the last time you had to inspect a Marine barracks while on duty? BAH will get you a HELLUVA lot more than you get in the barracks. The "pain" of paying rent (oh wow, cutting a check and putting it in the mail... the horror), utility bills (man it is just so difficult punching in my credit card number online), and groceries is well worth it to not live on base. Not to mention the BS that was mentioned above by Hotdogs, which definitely shouldn't be overlooked. You're pretty disconnected from reality.

 

[Hotdogs]

Living in barracks ain't fun but it is a free roof over your head and that is saying a lot.

That is not the standard by which we should be judging the quarters of enlisted personnel. I understand it's "3 hot and a cot" however we're not living in 60s and 70s anymore. Most Marine barracks need work and it is a little disingenuous to compare it to a person making $40k a year.

As a single 2nd Lt fresh out of TBS - I made around $43k during IFS. I had 2-3 roommates and lived in a place that would put the barracks to shame. That was about as close to the making $40k a year posted early in the thread. I lived liked the Sam's club and Trader Joe's king I was meant to be, and it was far above the standard of living of our "$40k a year LCpl."

 

[pilot_man]

What he doesn't have to deal with is paying rent/mortgage, utility bills and groceries unless you count bags of chips and beer as pert of a comprehensive meal plan. Living in barracks ain't fun but it is a free roof over your head and that is saying a lot.

Flash, you're as out of touch as the rest of our senior leadership. I love seeing the "I got mine and now fuck you guys" attitude from dudes that have been in our shoes before, but just don't give a shit about us anymore. If you ask any Active military member if they feel pay cuts (or just not keeping up with inflation as you so stupidly want to argue) will lead to better discipline they will all say NO. And you're right, that E-3 that just got back from a year in Afghanistan, living in a tent with rocket sirens every 4-6 hours, eating shit food, and oh yeah, getting shot at for a job, shouldn't be living better than his peers back home. Because he didn't fucking earn it, right?

 

[BigRed389]

What he doesn't have to deal with is paying rent/mortgage, utility bills and groceries unless you count bags of chips and beer as pert of a comprehensive meal plan. Living in barracks ain't fun but it is a free roof over your head and that is saying a lot.

Enlisted...berthing.

I've stayed in enlisted barracks in Lejeune. It's a goddamn luxury condo compared to enlisted berthing.

 

[lowflier03]

My point wasn't just to be an argumentative asshole or just plain pendantic, it was meant to highlight that the starting point used by the OP for the conversation was misleading at best.
The main point remains, the SgtMaj of the USMC was not advocating for a salary cut but supporting a smaller pay raise than has happened in the past decade of war.

The title of the thread matches the title of the article it refers to. However I still assert that a "raise" that doesn't keep up with inflation is in reality a cut, as is the ~5% proposed cut to BAH. Like it or not, servicemembers see a disconnect between certain leadership/party lines claiming to know their interests, and actual servicemembers interests. Senior leadership going before the senate and bragging about how great the quality of life is while putting a positive spin on advocating reductions in take home pay do not inspire confidence.

As for the new shiny equipment. I doubt anyone really thinks we will get new shiny equipment that does the job. In reality this is all designed to fund bloated and broken acquisitions programs on the backs of the personnel. I also don't see any increases in readiness or training (hours/opportunities) coming. I'd like to know where that magical party line comes from.

 

[Recovering LSO]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/04/15/news/economy/inflation-cpi/index.html?iid=Lead

^ For Flash.

 

[Flash]

.....If you want to talk about misleading, calculators that say an E-3 'makes' over $1,000/mo for living in the barracks when a shared studio apartment + utilities could be had for $300-400, and then adding a tax advantage into that, is misleading. In reality, the number is closer to $30-32k, which is about $15/hour if they worked a 40 hour work week. And we all know that they work many more hours than that. All this really is is 'me-too' ism: Some guy can't find a decent paying job after wasting his college education getting C's and smoking weed, so he points to people who make a living doing something that he might not agree with or might not be willing to do, ergo they are overpaid....

As a single 2nd Lt fresh out of TBS - I made around $43k during IFS. I had 2-3 roommates and lived in a place that would put the barracks to shame. That was about as close to the making $40k a year posted early in the thread. I lived liked the Sam's club and Trader Joe's king I was meant to be, and it was far above the standard of living of our "$40k a year LCpl."

An E-3 with less than 2 YOS makes $1805 in base pay, add $918 for single BAH at Camp Lejune and BAS of $324 is over $36k a year. Add in medical benefits that active duty doesn't pay for and $40k a year is pretty realistic.

So, when was the last time you had to inspect a Marine barracks while on duty? BAH will get you a HELLUVA lot more than you get in the barracks. The "pain" of paying rent (oh wow, cutting a check and putting it in the mail... the horror), utility bills (man it is just so difficult punching in my credit card number online), and groceries is well worth it to not live on base. Not to mention the BS that was mentioned above by Hotdogs, which definitely shouldn't be overlooked. You're pretty disconnected from reality.

That is not the standard by which we should be judging the quarters of enlisted personnel. I understand it's "3 hot and a cot" however we're not living in 60s and 70s anymore. Most Marine barracks need work and it is a little disingenuous to compare it to a person making $40k a year.

It has been a little while since I have had to inspect Marine barracks but I stayed in Navy enlisted barracks a little more than a week ago and they were just as 'nice' as I remember the Marine ones were, does that count?

I think some of the arguments here are a bit unrealistic. The military gives most junior enlisted folks reasonable living quarters, what more can they do? Are the quarters luxurious? No. Do they have great ameneties? No. If you are junior enough do you have a roomate? Likely, at least in the Marines. Do you have to put up with all sorts of BS like inspections, duty and hanging out with dozens of your closest friends? Yup. None of this should be a surprise to those living there or those of us who have/had folks living there though and it meets their basic needs.

What else do you expect though? What sort of standard should the junior enlisted quarters be held to? The DoD already has a 'One Plus One' standard from long ago and has spent billions upgrading quarters over the past few years. Are all quarters up to standard yet? No, but when you have hundreds of thousands of folks to house it is going to take a while. Or should we just go ahead and cut everyone loose on the local housing market, E-1 and up?

 

[Recovering LSO]

Flash, you're allowing yourself to be drawn away from the root of the problem. Housing is just one component of the issue. You, somehow, don't recognize that cuts (or smaller raises, in your parlance) have a real impact on realized spending power. That means the dude has less money in his pocket. There's an easy way to make that money stretch further - but you'd better be prepared to imposed those requisite restrictions on EVERYONE who gets their income from the government. Never mind that the link is from Fox, rather pay attention the Congresswoman's words.

Dude - a smaller pay raise, while not a cut per Mr Webster (and it's kind of embarrassing that the gist of your argument seems to be hung up THERE), still has the effect of less spending power.

 

[roflsaurus]

An E-3 with less than 2 YOS makes $1805 in base pay, add $918 for single BAH at Camp Lejune and BAS of $324 is over $36k a year. Add in medical benefits that active duty doesn't pay for and $40k a year is pretty realistic.

I don't think anyone disagrees with your math based on the pay tables and BAH calculator, but Spekkio's depiction of $300-400/month worth of BAH for a barracks room is spot on. As someone who lived in a barracks room for 2-1/2 years, I can tell you with absolute certainty that it blows. Definitely not worth $918, and I lived in a pretty nice barracks by Navy standards. We had a waiting list 2 years long with the BEQ for non-availability chits so that we could move out into town. If they were worth the BAH rate, why would that have been the case?

And to be totally honest with you, I agree with your stance on the word cut. It's stupid that everyone has decided to use a cut to the projected growth of spending as the new definition of a "cut," but we aren't the ones who changed the definition. If the sequester, a cut to the projected growth of defense spending, IS a cut, then why is a cut to the projected growth of troop pay NOT a cut?

 

[HercDriver]

I agree with Flash...it isn't a cut, and you have to parse it to make it a cut, but, really, I think that is getting involved in semantics. My main concern would be that the senior leadership before Congress isn't pushing back on smaller raises. The main things I want from senior leadership are: 1) The way forward for my service/big picture, and, 2) For them to get dressed up periodically in their best uniforms, go before Congress, and beg for as much money as possible, or at least to ensure my people are well taken care of.