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NEWS Sen Tuberville and Appointment Delays

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HuggyU2

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To paraphrase what a Marine I know wrote on another forum I'm on...

The Supreme Court made a Constitutional decision.

Biden didn't like it and wrote an executive order that says "fuck you" to SCOTUS and tries to do an end around.

Tuberville has decided to do what he can do to counter this. It's how politics work, as painful as it is. Both Biden and Tuberviille weild power in different ways and will use it as needed.

If a Marine wants a breast augmentation or gender reassignment surgery, is it the financial responsibility of the US taxpayers to send them to Texas because they can't get the procedure in Iwakuni?

Irrespective, a short delay in the new CJCS, Commandant, or CNO selection is meaningless. The Services will carry on just fine.

And all the shit that is wrong in the Air Force/Navy/USMC will still be broken whether or not the nominations are approved tomorrow or in September.
 

CWO_change

Well-Known Member
Regarding the above, it is politics, but Biden's approach doesn't get around the Supreme Court's decision. The Supreme Court merely held that abortion isn't a federal issue, which means that states are free to regulate it. Biden's response doesn't try to (and doesn't) get around that; indeed, states are still free to do what they want.

While I support the Supreme Court's decision and am unapologetically pro-life when it comes to abortion, I also condemn Tuberville's decision here. It would be one thing if the Senate as a collective (or even as a simple majority) refused to hold hearings in order to effect change in administration/DOD policy, but one Senator putting a hold on all of these nominations is ridiculous from where I stand. Note, the importance between the Senate acting as a body and an individual senator acting is that it goes to the representativeness of an action. Tuberville represents the people of Alabama--one state--whereas the Senate collectively represents the entire nation and, thus, is accountable politically to the entire nation via elections across the different states. The same is true for POTUS. Letting a senator from one state grind the process to a halt here is ridiculous, IMO.

That said, yes I do agree that the cries about the impact of having non-Senate confirmed service chiefs are overblown--especially in the short term--but under current Senate rules Tuberville could continue his hold indefinitely so long as he remains in office.
 
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Swanee

Cereal Killer
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I serve with American Patriots, officer and enlisted alike, who are worried that their marriages and parental rights are in jeopardy if they are PCS'd to certain states (Texas, Florida, Alabama, Ohio... The list goes on).

You aren't pro-life if you don't support that child to adulthood.

The world is too gray to enact black and white policies. This is apparent in many stand your ground laws. Yet when it comes to pregnancies we're all about control. I can kill someone because "it's them or me" but if it's a semi-organized group of cells inside a uterus, that a machine emulates a heartbeat (and to be clear, that noise was developed to make parents more connected to what they are seeing on a screen), vs a woman's career, I'm 100% onboard with her making that decision. I trust her with my life forward.

So fuck everyone who thinks they know better than her. Especially men. In the entirety of history we've never had to make that decision. So we should absolutely recuse ourselves from that decision. We can have opinions, but they don't matter.

Mandatory pregnancies are counter to good order and discipline. If a female Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Coastie, or Marine decides that her career is more important that's her decision and no one else's. Full stop.
 
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nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
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The Supreme Court made a Constitutional decision.

Biden didn't like it and wrote an executive order that says "fuck you" to SCOTUS and tries to do an end around.
That's . . . not how any of that works. SCOTUS only ruled that there is no explicit right to terminate a pregnancy found in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, and so it's on the state and Federal legislatures to set rules. If Congress were to pass a law protecting abortion tomorrow, it wouldn't conflict with *Dobbs* unless the pro-life side could find some other legal hook to hang their hats on.

Biden has the right to command the military within bounds set by Title 10, and so he wrote an executive order which he felt best ensured the medical readiness of the force, as is his right as Commander in Chief unless he's overruled by Title 10. This has fuck-all to do with what SCOTUS ruled on in *Dobbs,* and for anyone to have it overruled, they'd have to first prove to a court they have standing to bring suit over this entirely separate issue. Federal law trumps state law, and active duty military forces are a Federal matter.

What's more, the Federal courts generally give huge leeway to the military when it makes an argument pertaining to readiness or good order and discipline. This is how it can be a crime under the UCMJ to tell your CO or ISIC to fuck off, despite the First Amendment.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
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Federal law trumps state law, and active duty military forces are a Federal matter.
Raises interesting questions. See federal emissions standards, the state of California, and active duty vehicles. While most bases/servicemembers with out of state tags simply ignore California rules, we are legally supposed to follow California emissions laws.

Also, if federal law trumps state law, why can’t an abortion be performed on federal property in a state that otherwise bans abortion?

I’m not disagreeing with you, I’ve just always wondered about situations like listed above.
 

CWO_change

Well-Known Member
Raises interesting questions. See federal emissions standards, the state of California, and active duty vehicles. While most bases/servicemembers with out of state tags simply ignore California rules, we are legally supposed to follow California emissions laws.

Also, if federal law trumps state law, why can’t an abortion be performed on federal property in a state that otherwise bans abortion?

I’m not disagreeing with you, I’ve just always wondered about situations like listed above.
It is more accurate to say that federal law trumps state law only where federal law is properly exercised. The federal government is one of limited and enumerated powers and those powers not expressly granted to the federal government are reserved to the states or to the people. Thus, for instance, the Supreme Court has ruled that the federal government cannot force states to implement federal law generally as it goes against the anti-commandeering principle inherent in the tenth amendment. Similarly, the Supreme Court has invalidated numerous other federal laws as being against the federal government's powers, to include the initial version of the Stolen Valor Act, the initial version of the Violence Against Women Act, the law that prohibited flag burning, etc.

The fact that the military is largely a federal responsibility does not mean that the federal government can do what it wants to with the military at the expense of state authority. That said, the issue with abortions on federal land as a general matter is that the use of funds to carry out abortions on federal land is generally (with a few limited exceptions) banned by federal law itself via the Hyde Amendment, except in the cases of rape, incest, or to preserve a woman's life. Thus, between 2016 and 2021, there were 91 abortions performed in military health centers: https://www.npr.org/2022/10/20/1130316976/pentagon-abortion-travel. From what I understand, Tuberville's objections stem, in part, from his belief that the administration's abortion policy runs afoul of the amendment, which reads in relevant part:

that no covered funds “shall be expended for any abortion” or “for health benefits coverage that includes coverage of abortion,” except “if the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest; or . . . in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself, that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed.”
Source: https://www.justice.gov/d9/2022-11/2022-09-27-hyde_amendment_application_to_hhs_transportation.pdf

While it's not clear to me that the Hyde Amendment prohibits funding for travel for abortion related expenses (the DOJ doesn't think it does), Tuberville would be better served working a lawsuit challenging the DOD's policy here. Congress did its part by passing the amendment. The next step for a Congress that disagrees with the implementation of a particular policy is to (1) legislate to clarify (which to be fair is difficult on divisive issues particularly where there is divided government) or (2) find a way to challenge a policy in court. What Tuberville is doing is not appropriate as far as I'm concerned, but the Senate's rules do allow for it (I think that should be changed, along with a host of other things about the Senate, though many senators on both sides of the aisle are reluctant to do so as it protects their interests when they are in the minority, etc.).

Moving on, not wanting to make this a discussion about abortion generally, I've always found the "my body, my choice" argument to be rather interesting and convenient as the government instructs people what to do with their bodies all the time. For instance, it is generally illegal to sell body parts/organs, which is a limitation on what one may do with one's body. Similarly, before Roe v. Wade was overturned, abortions after a certain limit were generally illegal throughout the entire country, which also was a limitation on what women could do with their bodies (with the understanding that there was another body at issue there as well). Then we have the draft. While men and women honorably serve in the military, only men are required to register for the Selective Service, which puts men, alone, on the hook for the draft. And this responsibility and obligation has ultimately led to the deaths of scores of men across multiple wars over generations, directly impacting bodily autonomy and freedom. And this doesn't even get into the fact that many women, themselves, are against abortion in all or most cases; thus, even if you took men out of the equation, there is no clear consensus even for women on the issue.

But that brings up another issue why this argument, again, is an interesting one. And that is that our society doesn't operate in a way where only one race, gender, sex, etc., gets to vote on policy that impacts them. In fact, such would be illegal under our Constitution.
 
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MIDNJAC

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Raises interesting questions. See federal emissions standards, the state of California, and active duty vehicles. While most bases/servicemembers with out of state tags simply ignore California rules, we are legally supposed to follow California emissions laws.

Also, if federal law trumps state law, why can’t an abortion be performed on federal property in a state that otherwise bans abortion?

I’m not disagreeing with you, I’ve just always wondered about situations like listed above.

Haha ask me about how I got my M3 base tags at miramar. Following 60 days of getting temporary passes, which eventually expired. OR registered (at the time), didn't matter. Though it may not matter now without tags?
 

Brett327

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Raises interesting questions. See federal emissions standards, the state of California, and active duty vehicles. While most bases/servicemembers with out of state tags simply ignore California rules, we are legally supposed to follow California emissions laws.
Yes and no. @CWO_change gets into some good detail on the abortion issue, but I think I can clarify a bit on the broader topic.

Generally speaking, on a military installation, we are required to follow state law. This includes compliance with state environmental laws, cultural resource preservation laws, water quality laws, etc. Case in point, we have an outlying facility that gets water from the county. The water meets federal quality standards, but doesn't meet state standards. The water supply is now deemed non-potable. If the Navy violates state laws, the federal government gets fined. Environmental fines can be significant. Bases have people whose job it is to ensure we're in compliance with all applicable laws.

The cars are a different matter. States have standing reciprocity, which means the Jeep I operate in Hawaii that is registered in Washington doesn't have to comply with Hawaii-specific requirements, like the safety inspection program. Because the law does not require military members stationed in other states to obtain local drivers licenses or vehicle registration, those military members aren't compelled to follow those state-specific requirements. So, when you suggest that "we are legally supposed to follow California emissions laws," that isn't correct unless you register your vehicle in California.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
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I had something eloquent teed up, but my internet connection glitched it out of existence. So I’ll just say this: Both major parties seem hell bent on curtailing the rights of people they don’t like.

If we want to live in a free country, that shit needs to stop.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
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.

The cars are a different matter. States have standing reciprocity, which means the Jeep I operate in Hawaii that is registered in Washington doesn't have to comply with Hawaii-specific requirements, like the safety inspection program. Because the law does not require military members stationed in other states to obtain local drivers licenses or vehicle registration, those military members aren't compelled to follow those state-specific requirements. So, when you suggest that "we are legally supposed to follow California emissions laws," that isn't correct unless you register your vehicle in California.
Back when cars still required stickers, in California you had to show a smog certificate to get or renew base stickers. My first duty station after commissioning was Monterey, and me showing up with an 80 CJ-7 registered in Tennessee (no smog laws), I couldn’t drive it on base. Had to go find a garage “willing” to pass it. Same applied at North Island. I recall hearing when stickers went away that we were still supposed to keep cars California smog compliant, but as far as I know no one did.

Now up at Beale, the member is required to keep their car California smog current, and you to certify it online via some AF website. The program is very poorly followed or enforced.

I wonder if it was/is just playing nice with the state for emissions, or if there’s a specific rule or law in effect.
 
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Gatordev

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The cars are a different matter. States have standing reciprocity, which means the Jeep I operate in Hawaii that is registered in Washington doesn't have to comply with Hawaii-specific requirements, like the safety inspection program. Because the law does not require military members stationed in other states to obtain local drivers licenses or vehicle registration, those military members aren't compelled to follow those state-specific requirements. So, when you suggest that "we are legally supposed to follow California emissions laws," that isn't correct unless you register your vehicle in California.

What IBB said. When the stickers went away, NASNI (for example) sent out a notice to CMCs that everyone still had to have a smog check. Whether that is/was legal is another matter, but CNIC (or CNRSW) was defacto enforcing a state MV law.

Your comment about HI must be a change. When I was there, you had to have either HI tags or an out of state registration sticker in addition to your out of state tags. You'd get pulled over if you didn't have it. How did you obtain your out of state sticker? You had to have a safety inspection.

I was also pulled over at MCBH for not having a safety sticker (it was either stolen or fell off), which again, is enforcing a state law.

I think I remember hearing a couple of years ago they did away with the out-of-state requirement, which at the end of the day, really only affected military. It was sold as a pro-military law change, if I'm remembering correctly.
 
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