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Seat cushion/lumbar support - yay or nay

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
I don't know how to build a helicopter.....or a jet for that matter. I DO, however know how to use a seat cushion, kneeboard, or pencil. They should stay in their lanes and only "certify" shit that affects more than just my little pink behind.
Agreed. His comment was in reference to a discussion about fleet pilots input on 1 vs. 2 standby instruments. The consensus was that one is all that's necessary and he started going off about "but the requirements say" blah, blah, blah - then that gem.

As an engineer that used to work for a LARGE DOD supplier in college, I am pissed. I probably would have choked them as well. I don't have as much self restraint as Phrogger.
I restrained myself because I had been working there for a little over a month and still didn't know my role. My NAVAIR boss told me "I wish you would have shut him down. That's what I hired you - to fight for the Marines when they can't." I've taken off the gloves since.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
What rule is this?! I haven't seen any e-mails related to it.
It's not a "rule" per se, but a "hey, stop doing that" from CNATRA. It always amazes me to hear about rules and standards that are adhered to or told to be fixed in Wing 5 by CNATRA, but word doesn't seem to get to the folks that are just down the street from CNATRA at Wing 4. Not a dig on you guys, the operators, Kmac, just the overall system that seems to regularly fail.

Harrier Dude said:
IMHO.....NAVAIR has a real tendency to get certification crazy and drunk with power. Far be it from me to stand in the way of job justification for some fatass GS worker, but at somepoint the operators of equipment need to have a say in their own personal safety and operational requirements.
I understand your statement and sentiment. However, technically in this case, it's not NAVAIR that had the "problem."
 

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
Trust me - if you are close to 6 feet or over, get a lumbar pad if you plan on being in the '57 for any significant time - student or IP. And you really need to be careful of your posture over time - The HT's are full of folks with lower back issues.
 

soyeah

New Member
I just left the HT's and hadn't heard anything about them banning the use of cushions. I did hear you had to have paraloft 'register' your cushion or something so they knew what was going in the birds. The 57 does NOT have adjustable seats so a cushion for back or bottom is a must for some short people...no way they can prohibit them...some people wouldn't be able to see or reach pedals/cyclic properly.
 

HokiePilot

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I know of at least one student who is on med hold in the HTs for the sole reason that she has trouble reaching some of the controls without a butt/back pad. She also said that there is an IP who is in the same boat as her.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
no way they can prohibit them...some people wouldn't be able to see or reach pedals/cyclic properly.
And yet they did.

A temp fix is supposedly inbound w/ some high level oversight, so it's only a matter of time.
 

deMontjoie

Member
Speaking as a "fatass GS worker" (no offense taken -- there's too much truth in that line:(), please understand that NAVAIR does not prohibit any operational folks from flying any which way the want to -- NAVAIR is not in your operational command-chain. All we can do is refuse to grant technical approval of such a configuration. If the PIC or (more likely) the operational commander then refuses to let you-all fly with that gear, it is ultimately their call -- not NAVAIRs. Of course, the Commodore or Skipper or whomever will make his/her decision with NAVAIR's input in-mind.

As to the supplemental (i.e. carry-on / carry-off) seat-suchions that you-all are talking about, there is a very simple reason that NAVAIR has never approved them: Nobody had ever asked until recently! :eek:

You-all can ask for NAVAIR to evaluate pretty-much anything (not that NAVAIR will approve unsafe products, but you can always ask) via the NAVAIR Airworthiness Website at https://airworthiness.navair.navy.mil/ This is a waaay underutilized resource and, when it all comes down to it, NAVAIR ultimately should work for you -- use this website to force NAVAIR to do so.

NAVAIR is evaluating the OA cushion-set and the Wings Unlimited butt-cushion and lumbar pad next week on the T-34 at PAX. One of your TRAWING JOs is submitting an Airworthiness Request to NAVAIR on Monday which will enable NAVAIR to do a cockpit fit-check, ergonomic assessment, FOD-eval, bail-out drills, etc. Whatever is necessary to evaluate and (hopefully) approve the cushions for purchase & use. NAVAIR will try to do the TH-57 next week as well, but has not yet confirmed acft availability.

*****edit with poster permission*****

Now I know that neither the T-34 nor the TH-57 has ejection seats (duh!), but this is just an example of the subtleties that go into acft design and human-integration (like the hand-held GPS that fired a Tomcat's front-seater after a trap).
That's why you-all (indirectly) pay NAVAIR to evaluate and assess this stuff -- so that you don't end-up with your head ground off on a wet runway in South Carolina, with the last thought going through your dying brain being "But, it was only a cush...
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
Wow. Hell of a first post, and a class desk to boot... Welcome aboard and yes - we bitch about NAVAIR, don't take it personal...
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Can you approve a piece of gear, that looks like a 3 pound drilling hammer that I can use to modify T-45A's for more legroom (couple whacks in the "knee knockers" should do the trick).

:D



It stows in the T-45A Map Case. I already have checked that for fit.
 

DSL1990

VMI Cadet 4/c, MIDN 4/c
I know of at least one student who is on med hold in the HTs for the sole reason that she has trouble reaching some of the controls without a butt/back pad. She also said that there is an IP who is in the same boat as her.
how did she get past anthro if she needed a pad to reach controls? i thought they measure you exactly for this stuff! i'm wondering about this because i'm sort of borderline myself...
 
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