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Scariest Day/Night Flying

revan1013

Death by Snoo Snoo
pilot
Well, now I'm even more confused. Thanks for the video though. Now to return to my beer.
If we descend too quickly without much airspeed, we get caught in our own rotor downwash.
Increasing collective doesn't help, and can make it worse.
Best way to get out of it is to lower the collective and lower the nose to get some airspeed back.
Hopefully I didn't oversimplify too much there.

And I'm with you on that beer buddy. Time to break out the good IPAs.

And as for scariest day/night flying... the other night I was doing my first-ever DLQs.We went to a DDG. Daytime was fine... but night was sporty. Real sporty: 0% Illum, at pitch and roll limits. Usually they don't like CAT I's doing their initial DLQs on a DDG. Guess if you can land on that deck, you can land on anything. It was fun though, even with the pucker factor.
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
And as for scariest day/night flying... the other night I was doing my first-ever DLQs.We went to a DDG. Daytime was fine... but night was sporty. Real sporty: 0% Illum, at pitch and roll limits. Usually they don't like CAT I's doing their initial DLQs on a DDG. Guess if you can land on that deck, you can land on anything. It was fun though, even with the pucker factor.
Just wait, in a couple of years you'll be the guy in the left seat with all the answers while Johnny Boot tries and land.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
If we descend too quickly without much airspeed, we get caught in our own rotor downwash.
Increasing collective doesn't help, and can make it worse.
Best way to get out of it is to lower the collective and lower the nose to get some airspeed back.
Hopefully I didn't oversimplify too much there.
That sounds good to me. That video isn't bad, though. I do kind want to know where the "Chicken Plant" is, though.

As an unrelated video... This came up at the end of that video:


I'd see these guys all the time in EastPac, sometimes on the boats, sometimes we'd actually see them on radar flying around. Sometimes they'd be MD-500s, which wouldn't be too bad. But a lot of times they'd be R-22, R-44 or S-300s (rare), which...yikes. A piston motor in the middle of the ocean. I think I'd pass.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
In helo school there is a whole week of classes dedicated to helicopter aerodynamics...and even after that the answer to how helicopters work is pretty much still: "uhh...magic?"
You guys have an actual class now? Nice. When I went through, you just had to read the book and then go take the test. I remember just staring at the book for a few mornings in a row in the CBT area with my buddy. Finally, something just clicked and I ran over to the exam center. I didn't want to wait in case I started thinking about it too much and it all didn't make sense again.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
You guys have an actual class now? Nice. When I went through, you just had to read the book and then go take the test. I remember just staring at the book for a few mornings in a row in the CBT area with my buddy. Finally, something just clicked and I ran over to the exam center. I didn't want to wait in case I started thinking about it too much and it all didn't make sense again.
The current class has gone through a couple of iterations and adjustments and has gotten mixed reviews from staff and students over the last six years. Everything happens for a reason, and the main reason that the class is no longer self-study (followed by a morning of review) is that helo aero knowledge (or inadequate knowledge thereof) was named as a causal factor in some mishaps. So for better or for worse, that's the way it is.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
The current class has gone through a couple of iterations and adjustments and has gotten mixed reviews from staff and students over the last six years. Everything happens for a reason, and the main reason that the class is no longer self-study (followed by a morning of review) is that helo aero knowledge (or inadequate knowledge thereof) was named as a causal factor in some mishaps. So for better or for worse, that's the way it is.
I think a class is a good idea. But Causal Factor?

"I wouldn't have crashed my new -60S/-60R (or old-ass -57) if I had had a better understanding of induced flow. That would have saved my day!"
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
I think a class is a good idea. But Causal Factor?

"I wouldn't have crashed my new -60S/-60R (or old-ass -57) if I had had a better understanding of induced flow. That would have saved my day!"
I think the causal factors were more along the lines of "dum-dum didnt understand that hot, high, and humid made the big fan work less gooder....or....LTA/LTE issues". The folks at the ASO school were pushing this when I went through. For instance, most 60 drivers in the room knew what a Ps chart was while the phrog drivers said " p sub what?".
 

phrogpilot73

Well-Known Member
"If only I had paid more attention to the blade element theory..."

For instance, most 60 drivers in the room knew what a Ps chart was while the phrog drivers said " p sub what?".
Not a Phrog guy who has been to WTI. And truth be told, they only confirm what we already knew before we checked them. We're old and underpowered.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
^^^

Sure, it's a sledgehammer vs fly way to approach the problem...
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
"If only I had paid more attention to the blade element theory..."


Not a Phrog guy who has been to WTI. And truth be told, they only confirm what we already knew before we checked them. We're old and underpowered.
Ps charts shouldn't tell you anything new, it's just a nice summation of the physical limits of your airframe. You could figure out that on a hot day that if you go to 45 AOB you'll enter a descent that you won't be able to recover from. Or if you tried to hover over a mountain lake you could figure out it wasn't going to happen. And the cool thing is you can find this all out ahead of time before you get to the "oh shit, there's the stops" point of the flight.

Since youre a WTI I know you know this, I'm just preaching to the choir about the utility of knowing helo aerodynamics.
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
I think a class is a good idea. But Causal Factor?

"I wouldn't have crashed my new -60S/-60R (or old-ass -57) if I had had a better understanding of induced flow. That would have saved my day!"
Lake Tahoe guys might have benefitted.

Just saying...
 
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