We had a French Super E and E-2 det crossdeck on TR. They did CQ and the whole 9 yards. They launch and recover just the same on our boat, but you obviously have to have all the ducks in a row from higher authority.
Brett
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Roger Ball, good and not-so-good questions about the world of "Paddles"
- Thread starter TheDrakester
- Start date
We had a French Super E and E-2 det crossdeck on TR. They did CQ and the whole 9 yards. They launch and recover just the same on our boat, but you obviously have to have all the ducks in a row from higher authority.
Brett
A 'dusty' thread' that needs to be dusted off once in a while ... AND a thread which is ALWAYS worth bringing up once in a while for those 'new' and upcoming young-skulls-full-of-cottage-cheese who might be getting their FIRST trap one fine day in the not-too-distant-future ... it might be worth a look-see for said 'young skulls' so they can realize what a head game and a test of mental/physical concentration that landing on USS BOAT really is ...They look caged down there...I can see how that could cramp their style.
The lineup in this pix on this low-life, 'LANT-FLEET sunken LSO PLATFORM, left to right:
Phone-talker, E-MAN ... not really 'germane' to this discussion of the PLATFORM ... other than the fact that he's the 'controlling LSO's' BEST FRIEND ... :icon_wink
Book Writer ... a really 'new' LSO to the ship environment ... or a newish guy who's just taking his turn 'writing Book' ... and learning visual cues ... and learning the 'pace' of the PLATFORM ...
Kibitzer ... squadron chump or a 'newish' LSO chump who has no real 'purpose' on the PLATFORM other than to become a blocking dummy when we all dive into the net ... no further explanation required or desired ...
CAG/AIRWING LSO ... he is the MAN ... he is the 'controlling LSO' ... he is training the other LSO's ... he is ultimately responsible for what's goin' down on the PLATFORM & the BLUNT END of the BOAT ... he and the BOSS drink the same bug-juice out of the same heavy, silver pitcher in the dirty shirt mess ...
Squadron LSO ... mebbe 'qualed' ... mebbe not ... but he's WORKIN' the pass and will give the grade -- all subject to being 'chopped' through the aforementioned CAG/AIRWING LSO's scrutiny ... next cruise ... mebbe he'll be the CAG/AIRWING guy at his '6' in the pix.
THE LANDING SIGNAL OFFICER: THE GREATEST NAVAL AVIATION NON-FLYING JOB IN THE WORLD !!!
Believe it.
Non Flying? I'm flying plenty now, and was on cruise as well.
You can't fly while you're wavin' ....
An LSO's cruise: eat, sleep, wave, and fly ... the rest is rubbish.
ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 13, 2010) Lt. Elliott Shoup, a landing signal officer from the Red Rippers of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 11, watches as an F/A-18F Super Hornet assigned to VFA-11 performs an arrested landing aboard the USS Enterprise (CVN 65). Enterprise is conducting flight deck certification in preparation for work-ups leading to its 21st deployment. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Bryan Blair/Released) 100513-N-3620B-085
Lt. Elliott Shoup is watching .... what ??? It would appear the answer is ''nuthin'' but what the little bird shot at ...
ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 13, 2010) Lt. Elliott Shoup, a landing signal officer from the Red Rippers of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 11, watches ....
WTF IS he doin' on the PLATFORM if he's not watchin' the bird-on-the-ball ... ???
Clearing the deck ... ??? Chasing the wind??? Smelling the flowers ??? Drying his hair ??? Tryin' out for 'TOPGUN, Part II' ... ???
Lt. Elliott Shoup is watching .... what ??? It would appear the answer is ''nuthin'' but what the little bird shot at ...
WTF IS he doin' on the PLATFORM if he's not watchin' the bird-on-the-ball ... ???
Clearing the deck ... ??? Chasing the wind??? Smelling the flowers ??? Tryin' out for 'TOPGUN, Part II' ... ???
I retract my last comments.
He is probably the "deck caller". This is a position defined in LSO NATOPS now. He stands in front of the controlling LSO while the deck is at the 100' foul window. He looks forward and when the deck moves to a 10' waveoff window he steps behind the controlling LSO and now continues to scan the port foul line. The AGO watches the starboard foul line, the LSO watches the port.
Hate to be the party pooper, but it appears as if he's doing his job The way I trained my teams was that this is the ONLY guy on the team that is not watching the aircraft on the ball, in fact I'd get pissed if he was - too many young kids fixing jets on the finger trying to kill themselves by wandering into the LA.
Hate to be the party pooper, but it appears as if he's doing his job
The way I trained my teams was that this is the ONLY guy on the team that is not watching the aircraft on the ball, in fact I'd get pissed if he was - too many young kids fixing jets on the finger trying to kill themselves by wandering into the LA.
Well go figure ... and thanks. I've got a 2001 LSO NATOPS (my most recent) and I don't believe that position was mentioned, but I'm clueless in any case ...
My aged experience was: while not 'official', that particular task was usually handled by one of the backup LSO's. In fact he was just a 'repeater' of the red/green, clear deck/fouled deck light AFT of the PLATFORM, so he wasn't really looking up the deck. The 'originator' of the ''clear deck'' call would be the Asst. Handler or his designee. It would appear they've re-invented the position of Asst. Handler ... a.k.a. the 'guy' standing on the foul line w/ the 'FOUL DECK/CLEAR DECK' switch during recoveries (?) ... and moved part of the function to the LSO PLATFORM ???
I suppose you learn something every day ... or you are dead.
May have misspoke. I'm on leave right now and don't have my trusty LSO Natops on me If its not mentioned in the newest version of that pub, then its going to be in the updated version of the LSO Reference Manual. For our airwing its a required position, but I'd have to double check in the book to see if Natops actually requires it in the "min personnel required for ops" section.
If its not mentioned in the newest version of that pub, then its going to be in the updated version of the LSO Reference Manual. For our airwing its a required position, but I'd have to double check in the book to see if Natops actually requires it in the "min personnel required for ops" section.
Roger that; I almost think we're singin' the same song, different verse ... my probably outdated LSO Reference Manual, June 1999, Chapter 20 sez:May have misspoke. I'm on leave right now and don't have my trusty LSO Natops on me
''... Backup LSO should always visually check the
landing area as approaching aircraft cross the wake
to verify proper foul deck waveoff point. After the
ball call, other LSOs on the platform may assist
this effort using the voice calls "aircraft", "men",
or simply "foul deck" to affirm the 100 or 10 foot (?)
minimum altitude...''
We always did this stuff. I don't really remember a hard/fast concept of '10 foot minimum altitude' as that's WAAAAY too low to give a WOFD -- and thus borderline unsafe & putting bodies & birds unnecessarily at risk ... but if it IS referencing a WO point, it was different for every aircraft and sometimes for every approach (obviously): depending on aircraft performance, deck conditions, sea conditions, what Case recovery, A/C fuel state, emergencies (?), and day/night .... all of 'em being primary but variable determinants ... etc., etc. ... ad nauseum ..
Anyway, we performed the same 'deck caller' functions that you reference ... we just didn't have a 'formal name' for the function/position. And in any case, it would still seem from the pix (above) that the A/C is inside the WO point or right at it -- the deck 'should' have been called CLEAR by now -- and thus the guy's 'view' of the landing area is semi-too-late at that point in time unless he's got nothing better to do -- but in any case, it's just a pix and subject to misinterpretation ...
*sigh* ... it's reassuring to see things REALLY haven't changed all that much ...
100519-N-7908T-207 ATLANTIC OCEAN (May 19, 2010) Landing signal officers aboard the aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77) watch as a F/A-18F Super Hornet assigned to Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 213 lands. George H.W. Bush is underway in the Atlantic Ocean. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Brent Thacker/Released)
Roger that; I almost think we're singin' the same song, different verse ... my probably outdated LSO Reference Manual, June 1999, Chapter 20 sez:
''... Backup LSO should always visually check the
landing area as approaching aircraft cross the wake
to verify proper foul deck waveoff point. After the
ball call, other LSOs on the platform may assist
this effort using the voice calls "aircraft", "men",
or simply "foul deck" to affirm the 100 or 10 foot (?)
minimum altitude...''
We always did this stuff. I don't really remember a hard/fast concept of '10 foot minimum altitude' as that's WAAAAY too low to give a WOFD -- and thus borderline unsafe & putting bodies & birds unnecessarily at risk ... but if it IS referencing a WO point, it was different for every aircraft and sometimes for every approach (obviously): depending on aircraft performance, deck conditions, sea conditions, what Case recovery, A/C fuel state, emergencies (?), and day/night .... all of 'em being primary but variable determinants ... etc., etc. ... ad nauseum ..
Anyway, we performed the same 'deck caller' functions that you reference ... we just didn't have a 'formal name' for the function/position. And in any case, it would still seem from the pix (above) that the A/C is inside the WO point or right at it -- the deck 'should' have been called CLEAR by now -- and thus the guy's 'view' of the landing area is semi-too-late at that point in time unless he's got nothing better to do -- but in any case, it's just a pix and subject to misinterpretation ...
*sigh* ... it's reassuring to see things REALLY haven't changed all that much ...
You're correct that the jet appears to be inside of any reasonable wave off window. But remember, this (presumably a nugget) guy was told to watch the port foul line - he's watching the port foul line
To the windows. 10' means that no part of the aircraft should come within ten feet of the ship. 100' - no part within one hundred feet of the ship. 100' window will be used if there are men/equipment in the LA. 10' window is used if we're waiting on a gear setting (for example). It works well and it safe.
Thanks for the update/info (seriously) ... (now for the not-so-serious part ... ) and I think it's 'swell' that 'they' have re-invented the concept of a fouled deck to the point where it's now EVEN CODIFIED IT W/ FEET & INCHES PARAMETERS !!!
Ahhhhhhh ... the miracles of modern science; the 'younger' generation. I got out too soon. We didn't even have McDonalds on base in the ol' days ... just the greasy spoon grill @ base ops or the Exchange. W/ McDonalds and Starbucks, I'd have stayed in until they carried me away ... *burp*
We just used the Mk1 Mod0 eyeball for the present 100 & 10 foot 'windows' -- again, we didn't 'call them anything', and sure, it was a subjective measuring stick, but I suppose the present 100' and 10' is as well ... there's just a 'book' distance now to say the same thing that we'd say was right .... was right ... was right ... RIGHT ABOUT THERE !!!''
''WAVE OFF FOULED DECK !!!''
I don't know why/how anyone would/could put it in 'feet' when it's still quite subjective where the rubber meets the ramp ... but I suppose it's easier to 'hang someone' if there's a problem?? ''YOU LET HIM GET INSIDE 100' ... !!! YOU'RE A BAD, BAD LSO ... !!!" (??)
One thing we didn't do, however was call anything 'cept ''CLEAR DECK'' or ''FOULED DECK'' ... too much verbage/different words could potentially confuse a situation that should be clear -- crystal clear. ''What's that??'' ... ''What did he say ... ??!!'' ... I love how the manual sez: ''simply say 'Fouled Deck' ...
I like simple.
We might certainly say 'aircraft' or 'men' early in the pass ... but in the shorthairs, ONLY a ''CLEAR .. " or ''FOUL'' call was allowed or desired on any deck I ever worked ... it eliminated any extra verbiage and gave the controlling and backup LSO's a clear(er) picture of the immediate situation.
Good stuff ... MAHALO.