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rifle id quiz

statesman

Shut up woman... get on my horse.
pilot
The problem I have with saying that it was a M1 Carbine is that the box magazine and action look too big to be firing the .30 Carbine cartridge. To me it looks as though the box magazine is sized more for the .308. So it has to be some kind of derivative of the M1A1 / M14, which is the same action as the M1 Carbine / M1 Garand, but with the added detachable box magazine and modified with a short stroke piston.

The rail system appears to be a Picatinny design (though without specific measurements it would be impossible to say), which would further suggest that its not of the M1 Carbine variety, simply because the M1 Carbine was not produced with a Picatinny rail in .308.

Further supporting the "its not an M1 carbine" claim is that the M1 carbine has a slightly different but very obvious change in the gas system. You can see this by comparing the OP to the post above. The M14 was the evolution of the M1 Garand but with a short stoke piston and a newly designed .30 caliber cartridge. The new .30 cartridge carried the same ballistics as the .30-06 but was smaller as a result of an improvement in propellants. We know it as the 7.62 x 51mm NATO.

The picture directly above and the OP are different in that they 1.) are clearly a different caliber, and 2.) The WWII picture clearly lacks the SSP that is obviously present in the OP.




Huey, I'm not jumping on you, it appears to me that you have already backtracked on your previous guess of an M1 carbine. I'm simply saying that this is clearly some type of M14 derivative. My guess was an M21 (the M25 is a variant of the M21), but the shorter barrel might mean its something different. Complicating the issue is that there so many variations of the M1A1 / M14 rifle that its nearly impossible to guess. I am interested to hear the result from the OP.
 

HackerF15E

Retired Strike Pig Driver
None
The problem I have with saying that it was a M1 Carbine is that....

The reality is, the Garand and Carbine are in no way similar at all. There is nothing that is visually or mechanically similar, other than that they are gas-operated semi-automatic weapons with a barrel that gauges somewhere around .30. Their size, shape, and action are completely different.

In the original photo, the receiver and trigger group are clearly related to the Garand, the BM-59, or the M-14. It's in no way related to the M1 Carbine.
 

Rocketman

Rockets Up
Contributor
I have to confess that I got the model number from the guys over at Professional Soldiers and got my ass chewed in the process. I'd registered there a long time ago and never posted anything. Turns out I never posted an intro either. They run a tight ship and you can predict the rest. My "Airwarriors training" served me well though so no harm no foul.

I knew it was a weapon made in Europe but I thought it was a variant of the M14 so my Google search didn't turn up the answer.
 

HackerF15E

Retired Strike Pig Driver
None
I have to confess that I got the model number from the guys over at Professional Soldiers and got my ass chewed in the process. I'd registered there a long time ago and never posted anything. Turns out I never posted an intro either. They run a tight ship and you can predict the rest. My "Airwarriors training" served me well though so no harm no foul.

I knew it was a weapon made in Europe but I thought it was a variant of the M14 so my Google search didn't turn up the answer.

I Googled the file name of the photo this morning and saw that conversation. Rough bunch over there!
 

HueyHornet75

Registered User
pilot
statesman,
No worries. I didn't take it the wrong way. I'm in no ways an expert, and my first guess was a stab. cheers!
 

Rocketman

Rockets Up
Contributor
I Googled the file name of the photo this morning and saw that conversation. Rough bunch over there!

Yup I'd lurked over there enough to know that they don't suffer fools kindly so I quit digging on that hole most rickki tik. Snake eaters don't play......
 

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
Break break...Bevo did ultimak ever start making a rail to fit your barrel? (sorry for the slight thread jack)

Negative. I got tired of waiting and went with the ARMS #18 mount. It is rock solid, and I am really happy with it. I am finally getting some better results with my hand loads too. Lapua brass seems to work a lot better than Hornady for some reason. I think Hornady A-Max is going to be my hunting round (going after Axis again this March). This is what the M-14 will do to soft nose Game Kings:

167864_489268845652_698645652_6499227_5341015_n.jpg



As you can imagine, that kind of deformation does not do good things for your accuracy. I was lucky when these were within 6 inches of the aim point.
 

Flugelman

Well-Known Member
Contributor
As you can imagine, that kind of deformation does not do good things for your accuracy. I was lucky when these were within 6 inches of the aim point.

Bevo,
Does that happen in the magazine or during the load process?
 

flaps

happy to be here
None
Contributor
answer:
an italian bm-59 built by springfield and sold by reese surplus. mine is a civilian version (no full auto). it came out after the m-14 but imho, it is a superior design.
integrated grenade launcher/sight and bipod (which i removed).
with cmp 7.62 ammo, it shoots 2.5" groups at 100 yard off a bag which (for me) translates to 7" groups shooting 200 yard offhand.
..
how about this us govt issue in 45-70?
...
4019465041_c129667193_z.jpg
 

Flugelman

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Ed,
Looks like a Springfield Model 18XX Trapdoor. I restored one that a co-worker had found in his parents' attic in Buffalo, NY. It was rusted something awful and I cautioned him not to ever try to shoot it. He only wanted it to mount it over the fireplace so that was a good place for it. Sadly, he passed away a few years later.

Does yours have the round or triangular cleaning rod/bayonet?

I saw a few of these when I officiated at the Black Powder Silhouette Nationals a few years ago.
 

flaps

happy to be here
None
Contributor
its round. ther stock has an 1891 cartouch. about a 3.5 moa shooter.
 
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