PAR approaches?

[ea6bflyr]

Personally, from my student experience, I love PAR's. All I need is a radio. The controllers tell me where to go. Granted it places a lot of trust in the controllers but its so much easier than tuning up an ILS and flying off an approach plate in a small cockpit with the thing strapped to your leg.

The only way a PAR would be better is if it automatically gave me needles like an ILS as well.

Then don't ever go to the radar shack and watch them perform a PAR. You just might lose faith.

-ea6bflyr

 

[FLYTPAY]

Then don't ever go to the radar shack and watch them perform a PAR. You just might lose faith.

-ea6bflyr

The smart man uses the ILS when available to monitor the quality of the PAR. But then again, you aren't exactly going to have an ILS in the fleet.

 

[ac2NASTY]

Then don't ever go to the radar shack and watch them perform a PAR. You just might lose faith.

-ea6bflyr

That makes 2 of us!! Except thats where I work, damn!!! I have to go back Mon morning.

After seeing some of the people who work the GCAs, or ATC in general, I too am worried sometimes. With a possible commission in the future followed by (hopefully) earning my wings it scares me to think about all the behind-the-scene stuff that goes on in the radar room/tower. The controllers who can't seem to grasp how ATC works (yet somehow made it through AC A school) usually end up standing gate duty or cranking in the mess decks but not all of them. Maybe the PAR will be in the process of being replaced by the time I start my training. I have flown a few PARs during my PPL training, instrument time. It's neat seeing how it works from the cockpit point of view versus the radar room. Then again my C-152 was moving a blazing 75-85 kts, maybe. Probably a little different than the T-38s and F-18s we see doing 400+. Ha!

 

[Gatordev]

That makes 2 of us!! Except thats where I work, damn!!! I have to go back Mon morning.

After seeing some of the people who work the GCAs, or ATC in general, I too am worried sometimes. With a possible commission in the future followed by (hopefully) earning my wings it scares me to think about all the behind-the-scene stuff that goes on in the radar room/tower. The controllers who can't seem to grasp how ATC works (yet somehow made it through AC A school) usually end up standing gate duty or cranking in the mess decks but not all of them. Maybe the PAR will be in the process of being replaced by the time I start my training. I have flown a few PARs during my PPL training, instrument time. It's neat seeing how it works from the cockpit point of view versus the radar room. Then again my C-152 was moving a blazing 75-85 kts, maybe. Probably a little different than the T-38s and F-18s we see doing 400+. Ha!

One of my onwings was a former AC1 who was fully qual'ed on both North Field and South Field as a controller. When we went booming around the area dealing w/ NSE from the cockpit, he would just shake his head. I think seeing it from a different (and sometimes frustrating) perspective was an eye-opener to him.

 

[SemperGumbi]

In fact, most pilots would choose the PAR when given the choice between it and an ILS.

I assume you mean most at your airline?

I would always take the needles. I prefer to make my own corrections rather than have a middle man tell me what I could be seeing immediately.

Why do you prefer the PAR?

it seems like a jet will actually have to be put in the dirt before they pony up money for this.

We've had it for quite a while in the Prowler. And ACLS and ICLS (obviously). With how much hornets et al. actually fly CONUS it is amazing more tactical jets don't have it. It is practically a safety issue it seems.

Sure makes round robin flights better training when you can go down to wherever you want and shoot an ILS. Not to mention divert planning.

I am just saying that it is good practice to have the SA to have a backup dialed in to verify yourself in addition to your GCA controller.

I kind of thought that was a given...

 

[phrogpilot73]

I'll take a PAR over my other choice for instrument approaches in the Phrog: TACAN. That's all we got - so I'll take precision over non-precision.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I assume you mean most at your airline?

I would always take the needles. I prefer to make my own corrections rather than have a middle man tell me what I could be seeing immediately.

Why do you prefer the PAR?

We used to do them all the time to mins in the P-3 at Misawa and Adak.....most pilots would choose the PAR when given the choice between it and an ILS.

The last paragraph was saying that in my P-3 days the pilots seemed to perfer the PAR. Why? I don't know but I'll speculate the pilots were more comfortable with PARs since they did them all the time and ILSs only when flying into a civilian airport. Moffett, Adak and Misawa had Tacan approaches but no ILS. Misawa and Adak had shitty weather needing a PAR rather than the Tacan. We flew PARs a lot, it was probably the standard approach.

I've never flown a PAR at Hawaiian other than in the sim. What I was saying is that it is not an emergency to fly a PAR like one poster was saying. It is unusual only because most civilian airports don't have them so we don't get many chances to fly them.

 

[HuggyU2]

I've never had any luck getting a good PAR when returning to base NORDO.

 

[FLYTPAY]

I've never had any luck getting a good PAR when returning to base NORDO.

Underacheiver! Get your PRC-90/112 out!

 

[HuggyU2]

Underacheiver! Get your PRC-90/112 out!

Great idea! Unfortunately in my aircraft, there's a rubber handle on the front of the ejection seat I have to pull to get to it. Doh!! :icon_wink

 

[MasterBates]

You have to punch to get your survival radio? Odd, but then again you are flying with a pressure suit on.

 

[HuggyU2]

True. We don't wear an equivalent to your SV-2. Our LSE is in the seat kit.

 

[FLYTPAY]

True. We don't wear an equivalent to your SV-2. Our LSE is in the seat kit.

Then again you can always use the poor man's PAR. Plug the GPS coordinates in for the Touchdown zone, look on the back of your plate for the VSI that corresponds with the groundspeed, and monitor where you are via DME and altitude. This is of course an almost last resort to get below the scud NORDO. Make sure you have an operating RADALT!

 

[S.O.B.]

It's not longer my problems (lack of ILS and SuperHawk NATOPS) but it doesn't mean I don't give a shit.

An ILS box weighs what? 20 pounds? The displays are there. I'd take a bet the wiring is probably in there, or it's compatible with the avionics bus. And it adds so much capability and safety.

Lemme also guess, no FAA Legal GPS either?

I was told by some pretty reliable folks that we simply couldn't spare the weight.

 

[nittany03]

In 10 years or so, the FAA is going to start decommissioning VORTACs and the DoN is gonna look mighty stupid with our PARs, TACANs, and not approving GPS for primary nav. I know combat flying isn't the same as what the airline guys do, but to get from Point A to Point B INCONUS, well . . .