Sadly enough that's one more 5th generation fighter than we have flying right now...
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PAK-FA/T-50 makes its first public appearance
- Thread starter Flying Toaster
- Start date
Sadly enough that's one more 5th generation fighter than we have flying right now...
I only watched a little bit, but I didn't see any vapes. For the first public showing they sure didn't toss a very much m-a-n on that stick.
Although all of our F-22s are grounded, we at least have some test F-35s flying, which are 5th gen... Granted they are test birds, but I am sure this thing is too.
Although all of our F-22s are grounded, we at least have some test F-35s flying, which are 5th gen... Granted they are test birds, but I am sure this thing is too.
You would be correct. They're supposed to start flying again in the near future, but it's still sort of amusing.
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...unded-after-electrical-subsystem-failure.html
The bottomless money pit that is the F-35 strikes again. That program no matter how cool/ high speed, is becoming more and more like the EFV.
Since we've had the F-22 operational since Mid 2000's and have about 170 airframes, I'll disagree with your point.
Depending on how you define 5th GEN, (stealth technology incorporated) you could make the argument that the F-117 which was operational in the late 70's was the first 5 th GEN aircraft.
The Russians may have designed a good aircraft, but they are at least a decade behind since they have a flying prototype and we have a Wing already operating.
Does it still count as operating if they don't do anything "Operational?"
It's not operational, by choice... By conscious choice!!
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?v=lesRVU1RgNg
5th generation by whose standards? Just because it looks cool doesn't mean it is, what is under the skin or for that matter, what is the skin even made of? I see a few gaps, seams and other things that could make it significantly less 'stealthy' than the F-22 or F-35.
The MiG-25 was a feared plane when we first saw it flying over the Kremlin and helped spur the development of the F-15, once we got our hands on one though......not so much.
It was a joke aimed at the current series of groundings, not a point, hence a later post using the term "amusing." Of course if you really want to get into semantics, for the past few weeks and the near future that actually is the case, since we have ZERO fifth generation fighters currently flying.
My original post stated "fighters" because B-2's are still flying. F-117's are not (with the potential exception of one or two at Groom Lake) and even if they were, they're still not fighters in any way shape or form either.
I don't think anyone would argue the J-20 or PAK-FA are going to be a real threat to the F-22's dominance anytime in the foreseeable future. It's fairly clear just from the outside they are a long ways behind us. That being said, the very fact they have entered the race is what should be concerning people. The F-35 is being billed as something that will retain air superiority for 40 years and that sounded great when we were the only ones with LO aircraft. In fact it seems like much of our air superiority is built around that premise (I hate to think of the challenges these present for our IADS). Yet now (10+ years later) we have the potential of facing other LO aircraft. IIRC even as late as the Gulf War something like 30% of fights became visual. I can only imagine what that number would increase to when fighting even semi-LO aircraft. Not exactly the same as using a big touch screen to "touch and shoot" a bunch of 3rd and 4th GEN fighters. Things like not having a gun on the B/C models or arguments that maneuverability and bubble canopies aren't all that important, don't sound quite so convincing. Not to mention some of our allies have the potential of a cheaper alternative. Just look at Hillary trying to peddle the F-35 at 100M+ a pop for India's MMRCA, while they're heavily invested in this.
If I had a point it would simply be that the race is now on, albeit at the very beginning stages. As helolumpy so eloquently put it, we've had 5th GEN aircraft for nearly 30 years now. Yet after three whole decades we have less than 200 aircraft to show for it? That's no exactly much of a lead and it's not like we have the money to build all that many more (anyone still think we're getting 3000+ F-35's?). Not to mention if they don't have LM building them, they might figure out how to build them at a reasonable cost. While potentially less effective, numbers do count for something. As someone who's still young enough to be at the wrong end of one of these things in 20 years, I'd prefer it wasn't even a contest.
What did you expect? If we didn't think other countries would build better jets, we wouldn't have developed the F-22 and F-35. The F-16,-15,and-18 production lines are all still running.
The goal was to be one step ahead ahead of them, not on par. A lead lasts only as long as it's maintained and declaring one plane as the magic bullet for the next 40-50 years isn't exactly doing that.
Not knowing their full capabilities nor how they compare to us....Ive always thought the Sukhoi's (SU-27, 35, 37, etc...) are awesome looking jets whether in the air or on the ground.
With so much talk about axing the F-35, lets just be happy that its still being built for now. Complaining about the plans for another 5th gen fighter post F-35 is churlish at the very least. Some days it even seems like a majority of the fighter guys on this website want to forsake the F-35 for Rhinos (gasp!).
Also, LO isn't the only technique in the BVR arena, its just one that the USA has an advantage in right now.
Had to look that one up.
On a slightly unrelated note, here's a briefing someone just posted over on baseops about a theoretical conflict in the Far East. No idea how valid or accurate the source is, but it's a very interesting read. Written in 08' prior to the roll out of the T-50/J-20. It does a pretty good job breaking down the trends of kills since the advent of BVR and the AAM.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/files/2008_RAND_Pacific_View_Air_Combat_Briefing.pdf