one opinion.. world's top ten air forces

[Catmando]

a few more usaf #'s

http://bobshermanspage.com/USAFPlanes.html

anybody know how 104's generally did against f-4's in 1v1 acm?
don't remember ever reading about that.
i'm guessing the 104 had a t/w advantage but not a turning advantage. a bit like f-4 vs f-8
thx,
flaps

Never did ACM with a 104, but I am sure they would be easy.... stubby wings, don't you know.

I once did a simulated strike against Taiwan in an F-14, and their F-104s were part of their defense. Our strike was supposed to ingress individually at very low level under their radar. But I decided to ingress at very high altitude to save gas – so we could later leisurely sightsee on egress.

Straight and level, we watched their F-104s come zooming up to our altitude and attempt a stern conversion attack. We were surprised and we laughed as they all departed flight about halfway into their attack turn, and tumbled on down, out of control.

With lots of gas after over flying our target, we then did a beautiful sightseeing trip over the length of the island, and bac-sheep.

 

[letoburito23]

I went to Tyndalls salute to the gulf this year and there was no less than 30 Qf-4's sitting around no tomcats though...

 

[flaps]

i would guess departures in the 104 were a common occurance. a bit less common would have been dead stick landings.

"The F-104 was sort of like owning the sharpest knife in the world. It was an honest airplane; you knew what was going on all the time. but like using a sharp knife, you better not make any mistakes. it did not suffer fools at all. The engine-out landing pattern was wild; 15000 and 260 over the runway and one turn, 240 KIAS over the threshold. Drop the gear by the emergency release during the flare! Rate of descent stabilized with gear down, engine off, at 240KIAS was about 11000FPM. No slack there. "

i have seen a few f-16 hud videos of dead stick landings, though. the heavy breathing makes it hard to understand what is being said. this poor fella's flight lead sounds like a real bunghole
..

...

104 link:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=20750
...

 

[Catmando]

The F-104 may have been dog-crap in ACM, but it was not designed for that.

A former (and famous MiG-Killer) CO of mine had an exchange tour to the Air Force Test Pilot School. He loved to tell (and I loved to hear) how they flew the F-104 on a parabolic profile into space, shutting down the engine somewhere about 60K and then zooming ballistic into space.

 

[AllAmerican75]

The F-104 may have been dog-crap in ACM, but it was not designed for that.

A former (and famous MiG-Killer) CO of mine had an exchange tour to the Air Force Test Pilot School. He loved to tell (and I loved to hear) how they flew the F-104 on a parabolic profile into space, shutting down the engine somewhere about 60K and then zooming ballistic into space.

Did they have a rocket motor installed or did the engine just produce that much thrust? That boggles my mind and sounds like one helluva ride.

 

[Catmando]

Did they have a rocket motor installed or did the engine just produce that much thrust? That boggles my mind and sounds like one helluva ride.

It had a J-79 engine, the same engine as in the F-4.

In fact on 14 December 1959, an F-104C with the J-79 set a world altitude record of 103,395 ft.

Later three F-104s were modified with a rocket engine. Used for astronaut training, they reached altitudes over 120,000 ft.

 

[flaps]

the late capt larry flint worked for grumman after retirement. it was an honor to have met him.

'Operation Top Flight: On 6 December 1959, the second XF4H-1 performed a zoom climb to a world record 98,557 ft (30,040 m). The previous record of 94,658 ft (28,852 m) was set by a Soviet Sukhoi T-43-1 prototype. Commander Lawrence E. Flint, Jr., USN accelerated his aircraft to Mach 2.5 at 47,000 ft (14,330 m) and climbed to 90,000 ft (27,430 m) at a 45 degree angle. He then shut down the engines and glided to the peak altitude. As the aircraft fell through 70,000 ft (21,300 m), Flint restarted the engines and resumed normal flight.'

looks like the 104 record was set just a week a week after the f-4 record.

that must have been an exiting time to be in flight test.

 

[nittany03]

So how does one control one's jet at 90-plus thousand with the motors off? Or is it just neutralize, do the badminton shuttlecock thing, and await denser air?

 

[BACONATOR]

All this video proves, is that in spite of lay international opinion, morons aren't limited to the boundaries of the USA. There are idiots in Israel as well.

 

[Catmando]

So how does one control one's jet at 90-plus thousand with the motors off? Or is it just neutralize, do the badminton shuttlecock thing, and await denser air?

Yes.