No-notice checkride?

[webmaster]

I was having a beer down at Dukes the other night with a family friend, a Kiowa warrant. Anyways, after telling the associated tall tales and bullshit associated with two aviators getting together, we ended up discussing check rides. He mentioned that in the Army they do "no-notice" check rides. I honestly had not heard of that one before. Random check rides for Fleet NATOPs evaluations, but never coming in to work one day unaware and getting handed a test, and then told you are going out to fly your check ride.

Granted, I am just viewing this from the VP community, how about VQ, TACAIR or Helos, you guys ever do this? Any variation in the Marines or Coast Guard communities doing something like this?

I walked away LIKING the idea. I know, it is dickish to be the one implementing it, but I have seen ppl cramming before NX checks, and I have always been, "um, shouldn't you already know that?". Granted, failing a board or checkride in VP is a kiss of death, and at the very least puts all sorts of negative attention on you from the front office.

John

 

[zab1001]

Did he mention the consequences of tanking said "no notice checkride?"

 

[webmaster]

Maybe OH58Driver can chime in... but it seemed that the consequences weren't as severe in Army aviation for tanking a check ride. Granted, this was all over a beer etc, and I might have misinterpreted something he said.

 

[zab1001]

Did you end up in a dress, sore in weird places?

Nah, it sounds like a good idea, no stigma attached to making a mistake, everyone learns, proficiency goes up, people stay smart...

So yeah, never gonna happen. I thought the point of Naval Aviation was to learn and advance only through humiliation and ridicule, with the added fear of being marked as a retard...

 

[webmaster]

Did you end up in a dress, sore in weird places?

Nah, no VP9 alumni were there....

So yeah, never gonna happen. I thought the point of Naval Aviation was to learn and advance only through humiliation and ridicule, with the added fear of being marked as a retard...

So true, and why it will never happen in VP... or be a GOOD idea in VP unless major changes happened on how that no-notice check ride was viewed. Too much culture change I would imagine. Probably a no-notice IPDFW where you were put through the wringer vice "3 engine landing, GO"!

 

[zab1001]

Yeah but those IPDFWs could be a chance to stretch your capabilities a bit with another reasonably experienced guy. Do some out of the ordinary shit, and actually talk it over with a peer there and then, as its happening, knowing you aren't on the chopping block.

Or you'd get some "gem" douche who wanted to do start malfunctions..."dude, go fuck yourself, I have evals to write, let's get this over with."

We'd run EPs during tac trainers...no one ever knew, but it was fun, and my policy was "no harm no foul." If someone forgot something, break out the book, review it, get back to discussing politics or chicks.

 

[webmaster]

EPs during a tac trainer sim eh? Nice....

 

[zab1001]

Nothing as a surprise...just "ok, let's do an overspeed drill" blah blah blah...program it...talk about fuel planning, pass the time. make the 3P do a restart from the FE seat for fun. no pressure.

 

[A4sForever]

Well, I voted "yes" because of the airlines -- I don't know if that counts ...

Never had a "no notice" check in the military -- but I had the NATOPS "equivalent" -- called a LINE CHECK -- on many, many occasions in the airlines. You would show up for work and there was the FAA wanting to get from point A to B and that was all the "excuse" he needed to jump in your cockpit. Sometimes the FEDS would be conducting a maintenance or procedural witch hunt -- frequently as a bureaucratic "reaction" to an accident/incident in the airline or the industry at large .... or something you read about in the newspapers -- and you were fair game on any given flight, any given day. Even international ...

It could vary from a simple look-see until we got airborne whereupon the FED would repair to an open seat in first class for a meal, movie, and a nap -- and he'd return for approach & landing 10 hours later. Or .... it could be a full-blown check for all cockpit crew members to include a check of all certificates, licenses, manuals followed by an "inspection" of all ground procedures, start, take-off, area departure, cruise procedures, navigation, arrival procedures, landing, and secure ... and then the asshole might just say "thanks for the ride" and march off w/out any debrief.

If he wanted to and your performance was sufficiently shaky ... stand by for a "reaction" ... it's been known to have serious certificate repercussions on occasion.

The best thing that EVER happened to me personally to enable me to deal w/ these "surprises" and lose any "fear" of the FAA was my time instructing them in the simulator and on the line at two airlines. I've seen more than one FED sitting in the seat, basking in the warm glow of the essential power failure light, clueless with drool running down his chin. A beautiful sight, I can assure you.

As a result, I soon recognized that they put their pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us, I usually knew more than they about flying and procedures ... and most were frustrated wannabe airline pilots when it came right down to it.

I would treat them as a "welcome guest" -- but still a "guest" -- and I made certain they knew who was in charge of the airplane. That approach never failed me -- it put THEM on the "defensive", if that's not too strong a word, instead of it going down the other way -- which was the case for most of my airline flying compadres -- i.e., they lived in fear & loathing of the FEDS and let "them" alter the normal flow in the cockpit.

You sign for the airplane because someone has put full faith & confidence in your ability to get the job done. I knew it; I believed it and that attitude served me well over the years. I didn't worry about "no notice" or "surprise" check rides as I made it a policy to know my shit every day -- not just bone up for a scheduled ride/check.

I wasn't perfect -- but I was good enough to fool most of the people all of the time and all of the people most of the time ...

Check rides??? Piece of cake, if YOU believe it and are "ready" ...

 

[phrogpilot73]

Didn't ever have one in the FMF, but as a young 2P - you'd occasionally get quizz-fucked in flight.

 

[scoober78]

-you'd occasionally get quizz-fucked in flight.

Never flew a P-3 eh?

 

[vick]

It's an AF thing too. I've heard guys talk about them and seen a couple of guys doing them, but I haven't been around long enough to get one myself. I think there is a quota of them that the group's Stan Eval has to give.

 

[Pags]

Didn't ever have one in the FMF, but as a young 2P - you'd occasionally get quizz-fucked in flight.

That's just professional development.

 

[skidkid]

Isnt every flight as a new guy in a squadron a checkride for all intents and purposes?

 

[robav8r]

but never coming in to work one day unaware and getting handed a test, and then told you are going out to fly your check ride.

John - what is your friends ground job and collateral duties like? If your primary job is to be an "aviator" and you are given the time (and resources) to effectively train and hone your skills, then yes, we all should be ready and willing to take a check ride at any time. But, as you are aware, some platforms and communities have varying degrees of A/C availability, training regimens and appropriate training "focus" when compared to all the other BS we have to contend with everyday. Thoughts?