• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

No more CQs?

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I’m not an F/A-18 pilot anymore, so I’ve wondered about how the engineers overcame the dreaded 4-channel AOA failure for PLM, as it always seemed like the most common worst-case behind the boat scenario. Is GAIN ORIDE smarter now or has something else changed?

Quick related sea story:
My last deployment was the first one where that particular air wing used PLM. I loved it. Flying passes had never been so easy....right until I got a 4 channel AOA failure...two flights in row on two different jets (PSA: Tell your PCs not to try and see if the old style AOA probes will spin freely all the way around. Spoiler alert—they don’t.) For those two flights it was back to full manual passes to get aboard. On one of them it wasn’t apparent which probe was the good one to select (both showing about the same), which meant no E-bracket and that I actually had to, gasp, scan airspeed during the approach (still going to therapy for the PTSD caused by this one).
I read the F-18 FCS bulletin a while back for v40, and I do recall that it had a bunch of 4 channel AOA failure software upgrades, like being able to pick the operable AOA probe automatically, or to rely on the INS value. Our jets are getting the upgrade soon, and I haven't flown with it yet, but I suspect the annoying 4 channel AOA failures will be less annoying - particularly at the boat.
 

Birdbrain

Well-Known Member
pilot
Going back to a few posts ago, the flight hours aren't going to be replaced with something else.

The new syllabus proposals will have folks "off-ramp" into their platforms earlier; helo guys will be selected sooner, not do the full T-6 syllabus and go to heloland sooner. Jet guys will get picked sooner and do "tacform" and other things to make them "better" in the T-45. They've tried this once before in the early 10s and it didn't go very well.

A new T-45 syllabus with some additions was sent back with what amounted to "no additions, status quo only, and subtractions are welcome".

The goal is to get SNAs from street to fleet ASAFP and as cheaply as possible.
Interesting. It's hard to perceive the big picture as a student because everything is new to me, but just how close to a Fleet aviator does the training command get us? Is the FRS just polish or is it just as intense with firehose learning as Intermediate and Advanced? For Jets, P8s, and Helos respectively I'm just curious.
 
Interesting. It's hard to perceive the big picture as a student because everything is new to me, but just how close to a Fleet aviator does the training command get us? Is the FRS just polish or is it just as intense with firehose learning as Intermediate and Advanced? For Jets, P8s, and Helos respectively I'm just curious.

As someone currently in the super hornet RAG, I'd say the training command is just getting your foot in the door proving you have the capacity to learn/perform in the RAG and beyond. The "fire hose" does not stop after the training command, if anything there is far more information you need to digest from numerous different sources in the RAG rather than having everything in one FTI. The fundamentals of joining/rejoining, landing, etc are always there and you're able to think about them less as time goes on so you're able to focus more on tactics. Not to mention working a radar, MIDS, a FLIR amongst other sensors is never introduced in the training command.
 

Python

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Interesting. It's hard to perceive the big picture as a student because everything is new to me, but just how close to a Fleet aviator does the training command get us? Is the FRS just polish or is it just as intense with firehose learning as Intermediate and Advanced? For Jets, P8s, and Helos respectively I'm just curious.

For the jet world, different universes. The training commands will get you a foundation for admin/Tacadmin, and a little bombing/BFM theory. The Rag will be an entirely different beast, with much more new information related to systems and tactics, in a higher performing aircraft. The tactics themselves are sophisticated enough to make the Rag a different beast than the training command. Apples and oranges to a very high level.
That said, the material learned in the training command is invaluable, but the rag is definitely not a “polish.”
 

whitesoxnation

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Nothing has been eliminated, only waivered. Once the boat is gone I suppose the waivers will change. The new proposal syllabus has some interesting things in it that I appreciate as a VFA guy. A/A timelines, out mechanics, re-attack mechanics, some new CAS-like target area tactics, some division fluid four type stuff. This new syllabus is written and was supposed to be online already, but was pushed back due to jet issues and COVID. It's not perfect, but it's a move in the right direction.

How do you run an A/A timeline without a radar? (I fly the Hornet should know this - usually clean)

Do you just “do the moves” TAC form style?
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
FWIW, the FRSesses always want a better product from CNATRA so they don't have to "waste" resources to get "their guys" up to speed. I've seen it countless times in STAN boards. The reality is, no one is going to be completely satisfied.

Given the above, I always said that the TRACOM Wings gave you the vocabulary and credibility to sit at the table to speak with fleet aviators. You just needed to choose your words wisely and listen, now that you understood the basics. Even transitioning generational platforms (from -60B to -60R), this advice seemed to be wise.
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
How do you run an A/A timeline without a radar? (I fly the Hornet should know this - usually clean)

Do you just “do the moves” TAC form style?
Yeah, it'd be a canned comm drill to a waypoint with some reattacks.
 
Last edited:

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Interesting. It's hard to perceive the big picture as a student because everything is new to me, but just how close to a Fleet aviator does the training command get us? Is the FRS just polish or is it just as intense with firehose learning as Intermediate and Advanced? For Jets, P8s, and Helos respectively I'm just curious.
As someone currently in the super hornet RAG, I'd say the training command is just getting your foot in the door proving you have the capacity to learn/perform in the RAG and beyond. The "fire hose" does not stop after the training command, if anything there is far more information you need to digest from numerous different sources in the RAG rather than having everything in one FTI. The fundamentals of joining/rejoining, landing, etc are always there and you're able to think about them less as time goes on so you're able to focus more on tactics. Not to mention working a radar, MIDS, a FLIR amongst other sensors is never introduced in the training command.
For the jet world, different universes. The training commands will get you a foundation for admin/Tacadmin, and a little bombing/BFM theory. The Rag will be an entirely different beast, with much more new information related to systems and tactics, in a higher performing aircraft. The tactics themselves are sophisticated enough to make the Rag a different beast than the training command. Apples and oranges to a very high level.
That said, the material learned in the training command is invaluable, but the rag is definitely not a “polish.”

Most people don't remember their winging speaker. Mine was the CO of HSC-7 at the time and I very vividly remember he told us he left his speech on the airliner accidentally as he was practicing it... and that the major line he wanted to get across to us was "Congrats, earning those wings is a big deal. It's the happiest day of my memory - don't tell my wife that - but I want you to understand, all they really mean is 'you are now tall enough to ride the big roller coaster.' Go off, do great things in grey aircraft, but realize there's a ton more work ahead of you. You've proven to us you know how to study and know the basics of flying."

I remember sitting there like "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkkk why did my instructors tell me the FRS is the best time?"

The reality is the FRS still has the same firehose effect. You (should) spend relatively little time on how to not kill yourself, almost no time on how to get around, and a lot more time learning how to turn your aircraft into a weapon and in the case of a helicopter, a rescue vehicle. Naval Aviation Magazine broke down FRS time by flight hour across all models and I think most of them were about a 70/30 split on tactics vs. NATOPS, with HSC being the closest to 50/50 at the time, although that has changed significantly since that article.

Basically: it's like flight school but your instructors will treat you more like a peer (you're still not but they'll pretend until they need to fail you) and the expectations are higher.
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Interesting. It's hard to perceive the big picture as a student because everything is new to me, but just how close to a Fleet aviator does the training command get us? Is the FRS just polish or is it just as intense with firehose learning as Intermediate and Advanced? For Jets, P8s, and Helos respectively I'm just curious.
How well did high school prepare you for college? More importantly, how well did college prepare you for flight school?
Your VFA IPs didn't just leave flight school and come back five years later with a head full of knowledge and experience without a significant amount of hard work in between.

The FRS, and the fleet, are significantly harder. Graduating and getting your wings just proves one thing, that you are capable of being trained. The actual training hasn't even really begun.
 
Top