NJP TO OFFICER

[Treetop Flyer]

let say that sailor work his ass off and got his degree ( with A 3.5 GPA) while being on forward deployed ship, somehow his coc dislike him and send him up for doing the something as everybody else been doing, would you still cut this sailor dream short by denies him a LOR?

If it was months ago it’s pointless

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

An officer that is NJP'ed is pretty much dead in the water.

Is that really true though? I know three different Officers who went to NJP and all of them still made O-4/5. So they weren't exactly dead in the water. They didn't screen for command though.

And these were no bullshit O-6 level PLOR awarded at NJP. So the offenses weren't swept under the rug. All were alcohol related.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

That's kind of the definition of red herring.

A more direct comparison is how many civilian applicants are accepted for commissioning programs when they can't get a recommendation from their most recent employer due to being fired? How many are accepted with a DUI in the past 12 months? Prior drug charges or drug use in the past 12 months? Convicted of a misdemeanor or felony in the last 12 months?

Have tried to get recommendation from probably 100's of employers for officer applicants and also having to review employer background verifications for my current job and I can tell you that nearly all employers will only verify that the person was employed there, the individuals title, and the dates they were employed, nothing more. No one wants to take that legal risk.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

If the best Sailor in your command went to NJP for drug use, or DUI, are they really still your best Sailor?

What if the DUI was 5-10 years ago at a different command? Does it really matter? Or should the Navy hold the DUI over their head for their entire career?

If someone checked in and was the top performer the entire time at the command and then you find out that they were NJP'd years ago for a DUI does your perception of them change?

I was shocked when I found out one of the top PO1s in my dept went to mast for a DUI when he was an E-4. Didn't change my perception of him at all though. It was 8 years prior and he was by far the top performer in his peer group.

I'm not being sarcastic. I'm generally interested in what people think.

 

[Spekkio]

Have tried to get recommendation from probably 100's of employers for officer applicants and also having to review employer background verifications for my current job and I can tell you that nearly all employers will only verify that the person was employed there, the individuals title, and the dates they were employed, nothing more. No one wants to take that legal risk.

I was able to get a written letter of recommendation from my direct supervisor at my 3 previous employers going back to when I was 16 years old when I applied. All I had to do was ask. I agree that if the recruiter asked then they would not have answered because they're not allowed.

Also one thing you missed is that companies can tell you if the person is eligible for rehire.

 

[wlawr005]

let say that sailor work his ass off and got his degree ( with A 3.5 GPA) while being on forward deployed ship, somehow his coc dislike him and send him up for doing the something as everybody else been doing, would you still cut this sailor dream short by denies him a LOR?

That "somehow his coc dislike him" leaves a huge gray area doesn't it? It's also so grammatically screwed up it hurts to read.

 

[wlawr005]

If the best Sailor in your command went to NJP for drug use, or DUI, are they really still your best Sailor?

I don't necessarily think either one of those things precludes the other.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I was able to get a written letter of recommendation from my direct supervisor at my 3 previous employers going back to when I was 16 years old when I applied. All I had to do was ask. I agree that if the recruiter asked then they would not have answered because they're not allowed.

Also one thing you missed is that companies can tell you if the person is eligible for rehire.

My process was to have the applicant get the info, if they could not I would try, often the employment verification would come back with a typical legal statement along the lines of "It is the policy of company X to only verify that a prior employee was in the past employed by company X"

I can count on one hand how many would put a statement about rehire, that again goes into a legal issue. I do believe the question asked was "if you could rehire this person should the opportunity arise would you?" Nearly every response was the one I put above, it is so few I remember one I did receive and it was "XXXX had his position eliminated and as such even if we wanted to we could not"

The several background companies I have worked with for candidates no longer as about rehire due to nearly all companies having a policy to not answer that.

 

[ABMD]

I was able to get a written letter of recommendation from my direct supervisor at my 3 previous employers going back to when I was 16 years old when I applied. All I had to do was ask. I agree that if the recruiter asked then they would not have answered because they're not allowed.

Also one thing you missed is that companies can tell you if the person is eligible for rehire.

I think the difference is you as the employee/former employee can get those LORs much easier than some random Joe-recruiter. My company does the same thing, they will only confirms employment/dates of employment/job title.

 

[Brett327]

I don't necessarily think either one of those things precludes the other.

Necessarily? No, but generally, yes.

 

[Swanee]

Is that really true though? I know three different Officers who went to NJP and all of them still made O-4/5. So they weren't exactly dead in the water. They didn't screen for command though. And these were no bullshit O-6 level PLOR awarded at NJP. So the offenses weren't swept under the rug. All were alcohol related. In the Marine Corps it's true. NJP comes with an adverse FITREP. You're done at the promotion board.

 

[Brett327]

What if the DUI was 5-10 years ago at a different command? Does it really matter? Or should the Navy hold the DUI over their head for their entire career?

If someone checked in and was the top performer the entire time at the command and then you find out that they were NJP'd years ago for a DUI does your perception of them change?

I was shocked when I found out one of the top PO1s in my dept went to mast for a DUI when he was an E-4. Didn't change my perception of him at all though. It was 8 years prior and he was by far the top performer in his peer group.

I'm not being sarcastic. I'm generally interested in what people think.

As in all things, it depends on the circumstances, and since we're speaking in general terms, I would be less likely to support someone w/ a DUI in their background than someone who didn't. Obviously, exceptions apply.

For officers, a DUI or NJP are nearly always career enders and that individual will not be selected for promotion or screen for their next milestone. Obviously, exceptions apply.

Real world example, one of my officers had an NJP in his record from his first tour that was ultimately vacated. This came up during the legal review for his promotion to O4, which was held up for over a year while we proved that the NJP had been vacated.

So from the Navy's perspective, an NJP or DUI is absolutely disqualifying for continued naval service as an officer, so it's completely consistent that we would also say that a history of NJP or DUI for a Sailor is permanently disqualifying for an officer program. Since I'm advocating consistency, I'll close with... obviously, exceptions apply.

 

[Brett327]

let say that sailor work his ass off and got his degree ( with A 3.5 GPA) while being on forward deployed ship, somehow his coc dislike him and send him up for doing the something as everybody else been doing, would you still cut this sailor dream short by denies him a LOR?

You seem to have very detailed knowledges of your friend's educational background and work experiences. Why don't you just tell us what you went to mast for? You're anonymous here.

Also, not to be culturally insensitive, but I take it that English is not your native language, and in my opinion you would have to do some serious work on your written communications skills before I thought you were ready to be an officer. Was this brought up at any of your interviews or boards for your OCS package at your command?

 

[taxi1]

You never want to get caught "doing the something"

 

[HAL Pilot]

It’s been a long time since I worried about any of this so the memory is fuzzy but isn’t there a way to cancel the NJP and remove it from the record if it’s the same CO? If the CO wanted to get this guy commissioned, couldn’t he do this?

I don’t remember the exact way it was done but way back when (1985-6 or so) as DUIs were changing from a right of passage to an automatic NJP my squadron had an AW2 who was one of the best get a DUI. COMPACWINGSPAC had instituted a mandatory NJP for DUIs. The AW2 had a commissioning packet in when he was NJPed. A month or so later, the packet came back selecting him for commissioning. The CO didn’t want one mistake to ruin this guy’s career and somehow he and legal made the NJP disappear.

The former AW2 retired as a Captain. Squadron CO tour and base CO tour.