NJP TO OFFICER

[SELRES_AMDO]

I knew an LT that went to NJP for a DUI. I thought he must have left the Navy. A few years later I saw his name on the LCDR board results.

 

[nodropinufaka]

Typical reaction to shoot the messenger here. It's important to be honest with the OP, and I can see that some of you forgot to read the part where I said "depending on the circumstances of the NJP."

However any given CO might feel, the board is going to see it, and they're not likely to give that individual a pass.

If anyone here has first hand knowledge of someone who was selected for STA-21 with an NJP on their record, I'm all ears, but I'm doubtful that happens much, if ever.

no it’s not typical reaction of shooting the messenger. That’s not shooting the messenger unless you’re referring to yourself as the messenger of your own thoughts.

Your exact words were:

“... as a CO, would have a very hard time recommending anyone with an NJP in their record for any officer program”

So you expect a zero defect mentality from everyone. Which is exactly the problem.

 

[Jim123]

If anyone here has first hand knowledge of someone who was selected for STA-21 with an NJP on their record, I'm all ears, but I'm doubtful that happens much, if ever.

There was a guy in my OCS class, late 1998, going through to be an NFO and was a prior-E aircrewman (I don't remember what rate). His side of the story was something about writing a downing gripe on an airplane but one of the maintenance CPOs overriding it; he heard the side number call outbound on the radio and was surprised, lost his temper, and punched the Chief. He went to NJP for whatever Article you get charged with for punching a CPO when you're a Petty Officer. Again, that was his side of the story. Couldn't tell you the rest of the details or timing because I never found them out.

(I didn't think too highly of the guy as an officer candidate- he was always trying to game the system and it was almost an unwritten rule that the staff back then gave the benefit of the doubt to priors and it took them a lot of weeks to catch on to him, on the other hand that was a good lesson to all us straight-from-civvy-street people to always consider the person on their individual merits and that sometimes your chain of command/leeduhrship doesn't always know as much as they think they know. Anyhoo...)

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I knew an LT that went to NJP for a DUI. I thought he must have left the Navy. A few years later I saw his name on the LCDR board results.

I forgot about this gem, a fellow CPO who was selected for LDO and liked to drink, he went out drinking, drove back on to base and somehow the gate guard let him in, he then passed out in his truck missed the entire day of work and woke up around 3 pm or so, and it was swept under the rug.

fast forward 6 months or so later and he is now an Ensign and member of an oversight team, we were talking one day and then my LPO asks me how I know him and I tell him, he says he runs into him everyday at the package store as he is picking up 2-6 packs each day.

I then asked my LPO what he was doing in the package store every day! Turns out he had some family issues that had started, we got him some assistance and back on track, he ended up retiring as a CWO3 or CWO4.

 

[robav8r]

no it’s not typical reaction of shooting the messenger. That’s not shooting the messenger unless you’re referring to yourself as the messenger of your own thoughts.

Your exact words were:

“... as a CO, would have a very hard time recommending anyone with an NJP in their record for any officer program”

So you expect a zero defect mentality from everyone. Which is exactly the problem.

Read his words again. He didn't say anything about "zero defect mentality." Brett can be a real Cck Scker, I know, I get that. But until you've been in the seat, you should think about what he's saying here. The number of people who submit officer packages far exceeds those that actually have the record and performance to eventually succeed. CO's have a very small number of people they can recommend, who do you think they should pick?

 

[nodropinufaka]

I forgot about this gem, a fellow CPO who was selected for LDO and liked to drink, he went out drinking, drove back on to base and somehow the gate guard let him in, he then passed out in his truck missed the entire day of work and woke up around 3 pm or so, and it was swept under the rug.

fast forward 6 months or so later and he is now an Ensign and member of an oversight team, we were talking one day and then my LPO asks me how I know him and I tell him, he says he runs into him everyday at the package store as he is picking up 2-6 packs each day.

I then asked my LPO what he was doing in the package store every day! Turns out he had some family issues that had started, we got him some assistance and back on track, he ended up retiring as a CWO3 or CWO4.

Knew three guys who got NJP as ensigns for drinking or something drinking related.

one of them I saw on the LCDR List recently and the others did 5 and dive and went to the federal government.

There was one officer that didn’t recover who got a DUI and just believed that his career was over and kind of self fulfilled his prophecy

 

[nodropinufaka]

Read his words again. He didn't say anything about "zero defect mentality." Brett can be a real Cck Scker, I know, I get that. But until you've been in the seat, you should think about what he's saying here. The number of people who submit officer packages far exceeds those that actually have the record and performance to eventually succeed. CO's have a very small number of people they can recommend, who do you think they should pick?

Saying you wouldn’t recommend any enlisted due to a previous NJP is the literally the perfect example of a zero defect mentality.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

Read his words again. He didn't say anything about "zero defect mentality." Brett can be a real Cck Scker, I know, I get that. But until you've been in the seat, you should think about what he's saying here. The number of people who submit officer packages far exceeds those that actually have the record and performance to eventually succeed. CO's have a very small number of people they can recommend, who do you think they should pick?

I think they should select the ones with the most potential to succeed in the Navy. Maybe it's just me, but I never felt that NJP should be an automatic career ender. If someone got a DUI or some other type of infraction for being young and dumb and showed that they learned their lesson then I think they warrant consideration for future service with increased leadership.

However, if someone got an NJP for false statements or some other integrity violation like theft then I would also have a hard time signing off on it. My opinion is there is a difference between a solid performer making a mistake and a shitbag with a history of misconduct.

 

[wink]

Saying you wouldn’t recommend any enlisted due to a previous NJP is the literally the perfect example of a zero defect mentality.

But he didn't say that. Said he would "have a very hard time". I could just as well assume you wouldn't take into account NJP when reviewing an app for COs endorsement, thereby unfairly discounting the good conduct of other candidates. But that isn't what you said. Am I right?

 

[Brett327]

...until you've been in the seat

This.

It's easy to render an opinion in the abstract from the sidelines when you're not accountable for your decision or when the trajectory of someone's career isn't in your hands. I've had a significant hand in getting over a dozen priors commissioned. More importantly, I've also been the person that tells Sailors who aren't ready to be an officer that they're not ready and need to come back next year when they've matured a bit.

Officers are the gatekeepers for enlisted commissioning programs. Writing a favorable LOR for someone you know isn't ready isn't doing anyone a favor and it just sets that individual up for failure. Generally speaking, someone with an NJP in their record is not ready to be an officer.

Some of you need to grow up and take this business seriously.

 

[AllYourBass]

Saying you wouldn’t recommend any enlisted due to a previous NJP is the literally the perfect example of a zero defect mentality.

I think the zero-defect mentality approach could be detrimental over the long term for servicemembers who have spent the majority of their young adult lives in the military (they're bound to make mistakes just like they would on the outside, right?)

But when you're talking about highly competitive, rare opportunities like making the E-to-O jump, and the timing point we're focusing on is "in the middle of the application to become an officer," shouldn't something like an NJP be just as compelling a downward force on a Sailor's resume as whatever upward factors eked them above the rest for consideration in the first place?

EDIT: I did say "compelling downward force," and not "absolute disqualifier" — which is in line with the magnitude Brett and others have conveyed in this thread (i.e., much less likely to choose that Sailor, but not impossible)

 

[wink]

I've also been the person that tells Sailors who aren't ready to be an officer that they're not ready and need to come back next year when they've matured a bit.

You mean you actually had the temerity to make a tough call, use judgement and make someone, well, SAD. How dare you.

 

[Brett327]

You mean you actually had the temerity to make a tough call, use judgement and make someone, well, SAD. How dare you.

Haters gonna hate. Sometimes, the word no is the correct choice.

 

[nodropinufaka]

But he didn't say that. Said he would "have a very hard time". I could just as well assume you wouldn't take into account NJP when reviewing an app for COs endorsement, thereby unfairly discounting the good conduct of other candidates. But that isn't what you said. Am I right?

@Brett327 makes good points in his later posts.

It’s just a little unfair to blanket statement that a NJP is/should be a career killer.

 

[wlawr005]

Typical reaction to shoot the messenger here. It's important to be honest with the OP, and I can see that some of you forgot to read the part where I said "depending on the circumstances of the NJP."

However any given CO might feel, the board is going to see it, and they're not likely to give that individual a pass.

If anyone here has first hand knowledge of someone who was selected for STA-21 with an NJP on their record, I'm all ears, but I'm doubtful that happens much, if ever.

I did it, so.....I know at least one guy.