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New Chinese version of F-22/23/35..whatever

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that mike guy

JSUPT primary @ VAFB, Enid, OK
What fog said.

And also, last I remember seeing, China holds about 15% of our national debt; this could work out as a sort of deterrent in our favor. If China were to declare war with us, we could say (to my understanding) "you are at war with us, we don't owe you jack" and they lose ~ $2 trillion as well as their biggest customer market. I think they like (using this term very loosely) where they are right now and don't expect them to try anything stupid soon.
 

gparks1989

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
What fog said.

And also, last I remember seeing, China holds about 15% of our national debt; this could work out as a sort of deterrent in our favor. If China were to declare war with us, we could say (to my understanding) "you are at war with us, we don't owe you jack" and they lose ~ $2 trillion as well as their biggest customer market. I think they like (using this term very loosely) where they are right now and don't expect them to try anything stupid soon.

Worst thing China could do is upend the global trade system. WHile they've desperately attempted to create a massive domestic market ala USA, they haven't, nor have they moved into service and other high-end industries. Their holdings in US debt are an investment predicated on the belief that America's economy will rebound. If they dumped their investment, the value of the dollar would plummet thus allowing America to better compete with China in low-level industries...about the last thing they want. This doesn't mean China isn't generally irresponsible (currency, foreign affairs, human rights), but the crash course portrayed is hyped up by people who have no idea what they're talking about. The lack of control the Party has over the PLA is unnerving though.
 

oceanwaiting

FY-11 Core
In other news, did you guys catch the "Top Gun" footage China is passing off as Air Force training? So whether this J-20 thing is real or not is all part of the propoganda. I'm sure our Secret ANTTPs will have something about it in 15 years. I'm feeling ferklempt, talk amongst yourselves.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecu...-force-drill-looks-awfully-similar-to-top-gun

that particular segment (with the F-5) was borrowed from the Chinese first attempt at fooling the masses:


that video was dated from Jan 2007 (by the news ticker announcing Pelosi as the Speaker)




who doesn't blow up perfectly good airplanes during exercises these days?
 

desertoasis

Something witty.
None
Contributor
You mean the MiG-28, It has a problem with it's inverted fuel tanks.

I heard that the MiG-28 can't do a negative-g pushover.

Also heard that there was some pilot (and his RIO) who witnessed one doing a 4g negative dive.

Also heard that's it's classified.

Oops.
 

craftingraptor

Dreaming about the P-8A
pilot
What brainwashing would that be?
Their news is state-run and they teach a twisted version of history. It was evident in some of the comments I read.

And you're separating the PLA from China. Last I heard, they are the same. Are you suggesting that the PLA would go to war without China's support? Or maybe you're suggesting that the PLA will drag China into a war it doesn't want? Dunno. As multiple people have noted, the stakes are high for a war with the US, however it is hard for us to know who is in charge over there.
 

gparks1989

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Their news is state-run and they teach a twisted version of history. It was evident in some of the comments I read.

And you're separating the PLA from China. Last I heard, they are the same. Are you suggesting that the PLA would go to war without China's support? Or maybe you're suggesting that the PLA will drag China into a war it doesn't want? Dunno. As multiple people have noted, the stakes are high for a war with the US, however it is hard for us to know who is in charge over there.

Originally, when the PLA was truly the People's Liberation Army, it was the revolution-spreading right hand of Mao and the CCP. Mao and his cronies stood side-by-side with the PLA throughout the war against Japan and during the following civil war. However, in the reform era, the vast majority of party members and government officials have been technocrats with little or no connection to the military. This, plus the fact that China doesn't have the separation of powers no clear delineation of military rule means that there is a growing gulf between military and civilian leadership. While Hu may have direct control of the military due to his leadership role, no one else does. You don't see China's legislative body determining pay, promotion or base closures. When China's number two, Wen Jiabao asked the military to go help earthquake victims in Sichuan, they told him to stuff it; they later followed the order when it came from Hu.

Even then though, there appears to be a huge lack of communication owing both to the frightening complexity of the one-party state, but also possibly to a lack of direct communication between the civilian leadership and that of the military. If you look at recent events this is evident; it took between one and to weeks for the Foreign Ministry to respond to the USNS Impecable harassment, ASAT test and the EP-3 landing on Hainan. More recently, it's been reported that when SECDEF asked Hu about the J-20 test, Hu drew a blank.

What's unnerving is that there appears to be a gulf in control, but also that the military is hypernationalist, not well travelled and too big for its britches. On the outside looking it, it doesn't seem apparent that China is aware of how far behind the US it is or just how well trained our Sailors, Soldiers, Marines and Airmen are (sounds familiar, no?). The civilian leadership probably knows that any war with the US would reveal this fact and cause huge embarrassment. Coupled with the ensuing economic crisis that would occur, you'd probably see the end of the CCP and one-party state in China.

The Chinese government wants to do everything in its power to stay in-power. The PLA doesn't really have to play by the rules of logic or, it appears, the whims of the government.

As for brainwashing, China is hardly the only country to adhere to truthiness when telling its history. Plus, it's not like anyone REALLY buys the BS. In the past three weeks, all the Chinese I've talked to have been opinionated about everything from Clinton's infidelity to the lack of freedom of speech in-country. When was the last time you really took to hear a PSA? Or for that matter, when was the last time you read a comment on Yahoo news that made you go: wow, that was logical/not retarded. VPN's are no big secret and the theatrics of government officials are scoffed at. Everybody here wants to live a normal live, and as long as the government can encourage that, you'll see them staying in power...if they can't, then by by totalitarian state and hello unrest.


That is my long-winded 2 cents.

BTW, for an insight into what Chinese netizens are thinking, head over to chinasmack.com
 

oceanwaiting

FY-11 Core
not to discredit chinasmack.com, and as much as China now boast the largest population of netizens at ~300 million, there are even more that do not have access to the internet, and even those that do, without a good grasp of English, is limited to what they see and hear. My parents are first generation immigrants to the US and now resides in China after 20 years stateside, and can account firsthand to how limited true "news" is. If it has potential to be a political issue, China will censure it, to the point that Google withdraws from the Chinese market. Political and situational awareness of current issues? it takes more than the average Chinese citizen to verify the different facets of truth (since googling it isn't a viable option)
 

craftingraptor

Dreaming about the P-8A
pilot
As for brainwashing, ....words words and words....and hello unrest.
I'm not sure what you're asking me in the above paragraph, but in the previous paragraphs you are saying that the PLA does not necessarily listen to the Chinese government and will therefore do what it pleases. Agreed.
 

gparks1989

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I'm not sure what you're asking me in the above paragraph, but in the previous paragraphs you are saying that the PLA does not necessarily listen to the Chinese government and will therefore do what it pleases. Agreed.

It was with regards to your comments about state-run news + comments on the internet. I've read some of the nationalist comments online and they are absurd, much like those on Yahoonews or any other venue that allows commenting. And as far as propaganda, while it is EVERYWHERE (slogans galore), surveys have shown that even in the most saturated areas people aren't really paying attention to them; instead they're looking at the numerous Levis ads. I was drawing a connection to PSAs in America which most tend to tune out.

As for the poster above, while only 300 million have internet, those folks are still spreading news of inequity and government misgivings. In many cases they have brought a great deal of discomfort to prefecture, county and even provincial governments. Furthermore, those that don't have internet are probably just as likely to lack television and other forms of communication. Furthermore, the proliferation of internet bars throughout China probably means that those statistics are skewing to a smaller population; even in the poorest areas China Unicom's been pushing telecom/internet. BUT, whether they get fake news or not is hardly important to the government, or really to us. What is important is that poor folk have been protesting lack mad against inequity, corruption and forced eviction. The government is taking note in order to prevent a mass movement aided by those in the richer East Coast cities who are connected to the internet.
 
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