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New Chinese version of F-22/23/35..whatever

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Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
None
Contributor
Hah, and Fox News never acts in an extremist fashion to sell ad space. :)

So, you think this is alarmist muck-raking aimed to stir up interest in developing new, stealthy [manned] American fighter aircraft? So what's the problem? Are you waiting to be replaced by a drone? Shit, for the sake of all NFO's, I hope any new American fighter has a 2nd seat.
 

eas7888

Looking forward to some P-8 action
pilot
Contributor
So, you think this is alarmist muck-raking aimed to stir up interest in developing new, stealthy [manned] American fighter aircraft? So what's the problem? Are you waiting to be replaced by a drone? Shit, for the sake of all NFO's, I hope any new American fighter has a 2nd seat.

I never said I'd like to be replaced by a drone, just stating the fact that Fox has a tendency to make a bowel movement sound like an earth shattering earthquake.
 

mmx1

Woof!
pilot
Contributor
So, you think this is alarmist muck-raking aimed to stir up interest in developing new, stealthy [manned] American fighter aircraft? So what's the problem? Are you waiting to be replaced by a drone? Shit, for the sake of all NFO's, I hope any new American fighter has a 2nd seat.

No, I think if the best they can dig up is a gimmicky options trader that was a fighter pilot once upon a time speculating wildly about its capabilities, it's alarmist bullshit. What, did he discover its secrets while shorting AVIC?
 

statesman

Shut up woman... get on my horse.
pilot
The way that article was written it sounded like there was a great deal of speculation about the capability of the airplane based on pictures and video, but very little first hand knowledge. And I'm sure this was not a surprise to defense intelligence, nor the members of the Defense Appropriations committees that made the decision to cut the F-22 production short.
 

firefriendly

Member
pilot
No, I think if the best they can dig up is a gimmicky options trader that was a fighter pilot once upon a time speculating wildly about its capabilities, it's alarmist bullshit. What, did he discover its secrets while shorting AVIC?


When was the last time you took anything to the merge? Speculating wildly...alarmist? When did you go through the Top Gun syllabus again? What do you care, anything can shoot you down. Thanks for your opinion.
 

eas7888

Looking forward to some P-8 action
pilot
Contributor
When was the last time you took anything to the merge? Speculating wildly...alarmist? When did you go through the Top Gun syllabus again? What do you care, anything can shoot you down. Thanks for your opinion.

His point is still completely valid. I just don't understand how the quoted source had such detailed insider knowledge of a foreign aircraft he has never seen personally. If you could shed some light on this, I think everyone would appreciate it.
 

Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
None
Contributor
My point, if I had one, is that I hope the last US Navy a/c performing the AA mission first isn't a 1970's era F-18 originally intended to replace the A-4, A-7 & (later) the A-6 w/ an Air-to-Mud primary mission & AA secondary. The Navy has done a remarkable job in bringing the F-18E&F to their current levels of capabilities but the design is ~ 50 yrs old and inherently non-stealthy. I hope younger naval aviators get to fly a derivative of the F-22 (or something similar) off our carriers, lest the Navy by default not have a role in future "first-strike" type missions over contested airspace. I don't know what capabilities that new chinese a/c possesses, but only a fool would minimize the huge strides they have made in a/c & military armaments generally during the past 3 decades. This sorta reminds me of the way American officials minimized the strength of the japanese prior to Pearl Harbor.
 

firefriendly

Member
pilot
I just don't understand how the quoted source had such detailed insider knowledge of a foreign aircraft he has never seen personally. If you could shed some light on this, I think everyone would appreciate it.

I don't have all the answers, especially since I'm a FNG. However, with Fog's post in mind and to piggy back off of it, all you need to know is that we train to our threats. And an alarmist "gimmicky options trader" that was once a Top Gun grad has way more insight and assessment ability than MMX1. The rest is OPSEC. MMX1 just seems to have all the answers to everything, especially on subjects he's not familiar with.
 

exhelodrvr

Well-Known Member
pilot
The point shouldn't be whether this is as good as ours, but does it narrow the gap at all. The answer is probably yes. If so, that should be setting off alarms.
 

pilot_man

Ex-Rhino driver
pilot
I'm going to have to side with Firefriendly on this one. To just blow off a threat because you don't believe it is possible, is pretty foolish. Just because that dude has been out of the cockpit for a few years means jack shit. I'm pretty sure he has forgotten more about this topic than you will ever know MMX1. No one is saying that we should just surrender now, just that we should be prepared for what might be.
 

jarhead

UAL CA; retired hinge
pilot
FWIW...my thoughts were similar to MMX1’s when I read that Fox News web article.

I don't think we need to be "terrified" or lose any sleep at night over a video of an airframe doing a taxi-fam. More likely though, Fox News warped what "Whiz” Buckley said to sensationalize their story.

S/F
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The guy might be a Top Gun grad but even if his quotes were taken out of context he has made wildly speculative statements about an aircraft that no one in the public domain knows much about other than how it looks from amateur photos. As someone pointed out in another thread we know nothing about the engines, sensors or even the materials that the plane is made of, pretty basic stuff if you want to know if this plane is a Brewster Buffalo or a Mitsubishi Zero. To make the statements like he did put him in the dubious company of the village idiots of Air Power Australia who have declared US airpower instantly kaput with the appearance of this aircraft and Russia's T-50/PAK-FA.

There is a lot more in a fighter than looks, the professional aviators here know that, and to presume that this aircraft will have all sorts of capabilities based on the thinest of into is awfully premature and amateurish. If you read some of the better articles on this supposed prototype you will notice that several mention that China has yet to make a decent modern jet engine, one analyst even noted that the number of countries that can do that is smaller than the number that can make a nuke, the most capable engines that can power the prototype won't have the ubiquitous 'Made in China' on them. And that is only the start of it, China certainly has made some leaps but you have to remember that they have a very short track record in modern aircraft development and are still dependent on others, namely Russia, for many of the basics. But for some reason you don't see that sort of sobering analysis in the more alarmist articles or hear that from a former fighter pilot turned trader. There are scores of competent military analysts, aviators and aircraft designers that could give a much better analysis, shame on them for being too lazy or too stupid to find a better one.

I am not saying to discount the threat but to say that the sky is falling based on a few fanboy photos is just plain stupid. And just because this aircraft is a surprise to the public doesn't mean it is a surprise to everyone.
 
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