Navy Reserve COVID Vaccinations by October

[vxc961]

You wish servicemembers well, who are already subject to numerous vaccine requirements. But civilians subject to executive order tyranny can get fucked. Take a break. See a professional about your feelings.

Treetop, you try to throw as much s*** on the wall and then see what sticks. The fed (civ) govt puts lots of requirements on its employees, and for you I guess getting the COVID vax is the one that’s too far? They’re not strapping people down and injecting them against their will. It’s like any other employer requirement (mandatory move, new hours, mandatory overtime, etc…). If the employee doesn’t like it, he can walk.

If anyone mentions other requirements for employees you take the argument to the extreme (then we should ban XXX, that would save YYY lives), or you move the goal post ( I was talking about CIVILIAN employees), or you made ad hominem attacks on other posts and come up with straw man arguments.

Getting vaccinated costs you very little or nothing (govt employees can actually take four hours of admin time) but can help others very much. It’s selfish not to get vaccinated.

 

[Pags]

Since it wasn’t mandated I have a measles vaccine for anything other than school, I didn’t lose any freedoms. There was private school or home schooling if my parents had made the choice not to give me a measles vaccine.

Next dumb question?

Explain the difference between a mandated vaccine for school and a mandated vaccine for a new virus? Perhaps your employer has never had to mandate vaccines because so many folks got them for school and the work was already done?

Also, private schools still require vaccines. But since you're smart from the school you didn't miss out on I'm sure you knew that.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Treetop, you try to throw as much s*** on the wall and then see what sticks. The fed (civ) govt puts lots of requirements on its employees, and for you I guess getting the COVID vax is the one that’s too far? They’re not strapping people down and injecting them against their will. It’s like any other employer requirement (mandatory move, new hours, mandatory overtime, etc…). If the employee doesn’t like it, he can walk.

If anyone mentions other requirements for employees you take the argument to the extreme (then we should ban XXX, that would save YYY lives), or you move the goal post ( I was talking about CIVILIAN employees), or you made ad hominem attacks on other posts and come up with straw man arguments.

Getting vaccinated costs you very little or nothing (govt employees can actually take four hours of admin time) but can help others very much. It’s selfish not to get vaccinated.

It’s like any other requirement. If the employee doesn’t like it he can walk. As long as he doesn’t walk to another company with government contracts. Or a company with over 100 employees. Or whatever the next threshold is.

I totally believe you’re a libertarian.

 

[AllAmerican75]

They’ve been in development for over 20 years.

And in that time mRNA technologies have had severe technical and safety issues which have prevented them from entering Phase 3 trials in humans. This article describes the history of some of those trials but is derived from the original report which I am having trouble finding again. You'll notice how many were cancelled or withdrawn.

How long have they been tested or used on humans?

They have been conducting Phase 1 and Phase 2 human trials since 2010 or so. So we've got a decade of reliable human testing data. In that decade, the mRNA vaccines have had issues with the delivery means of the mRNA, stability of the mRNA vaccine itself, manufacturing challenges, high levels of adverse reactions which were not within the legal limits required by the FDA and EU, and lack of efficacy of the vaccine itself.

Home | Penn Medicine Center for Evidence-based Practice | Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania

The home page serves as a dashboard for news and updates on the current state of CEP and for highlighting newly completed reports and materials produced by CEP analyst.

www.uphs.upenn.edu

Messenger RNA-based vaccines: Progress, challenges, applications | Request PDF

Request PDF | Messenger RNA-based vaccines: Progress, challenges, applications | Twenty years after the demonstration that messenger RNA (mRNA) was expressed and immunogenic upon direct injection in mice, the first successful... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

MRNa gene therapy and MRNA tech, along with the lipid coating, has been in development for over 20 years. This is the first instance of using them for a vaccine.

While they have been in development for 20 years, the issue becomes that anyone who believes in the mRNA vaccines must also believe that Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna were able to solve all of the safety and technical problems inherent to the mRNA vaccines in roughly six months whereas they were unable to do so in the entire decade preceding 2020. Given Pfizer's terrible track record and Moderna's secrecy, it is not surprising to me many do not trust the technology. Either way, the mRNA vaccinations are either a modern medical miracle or malfeasance; there's no real middle ground.

 

[Brett327]

Lots of folks in this thread need to review ORM fundamentals prior to their next flight.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Lots of folks in this thread need to review ORM fundamentals prior to their next flight.

“I just want my sailors to live”

 

[taxi1]

Name another vaccine mandated by the federal govt. as a condition for employment?

There were vaccines here at Big State U mandated for admission and attendance before the Covid pandemic. For civilian work I had to go overseas as a core part of my job, which required a bunch of vaccinations, most I’d already had thanks to the Navy.

All this talk about being anti-mandate and not anti-vax, that’s great for you. But the anti-vax, vax fear, and vax hesitancy came first. Mouth breathing stupid shit like this came first, where this woman got to speak and make the case the vaccines magnetize you in front of a state legislature. JFC…



By even entertaining this moronitude it helped to mainstream the batshit crazy and help turn people against what is an incredibly safe and effective medicine, which we know is safe because a billion people have taken it.

The anti-vax, the irrational fear came first.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I’m a diehard libertarian.

It’s selfish not to get vaccinated.

You’re confused.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Explain the difference between a mandated vaccine for school and a mandated vaccine for a new virus? Perhaps your employer has never had to mandate vaccines because so many folks got them for school and the work was already done?

Also, private schools still require vaccines. But since you're smart from the school you didn't miss out on I'm sure you knew that.

What about my saying "home schooling" makes you want to completely ignore those two words? Or completely "miss out" on my saying there were options for still getting an education if you don't get school mandated vaccines?

You can always get an education through home schooling. You can't print money at home when a government mandate affects your job.

Private schools don't all require vaccinations, especially COVID vaccinations. As for non-COVID vaccinations, I know there is at least one somewhere in the Virginia Beach area that doesn't because my friend's anti-vax cousin sends her kids to it. Anti-vax for religious reasons, basically refusing any vaccine unless it can be proved no stem cell research involved in any way as the stem cells probably came from aborted babies. She and her husband consider even the older vaccines from before stem cell research to probably be contaminated due modern product techniques, modern stabilizing agents, etc. Intellectually they know they are putting their kids at risk but they thinks there is a greater risk pissing off God. Yes I consider it to be a stupid risk but I support their right to make the choice. (And hopefully the kids are okay until old enough to make medical choices for themselves.)

Many religious objectors can get waivers for vaccines in public schools too. I know there was a way in Lemon Grove, CA when my daughter was in elementary school there because it was a hot topic with the PTA who was filing law suits to try and stop it. There wasn't official deciding if it was a "valid" religious objection, it was a signed paper submitted by the parent. Don't know the outcome of the lawsuit as this was in 2005 or so and my daughter moved to a different school system plus it never interested me as it didn't affect me.

 

[squorch2]

ITT: Know-Nothing Luddism + post-modern epistemics (of a sort)

 

[UInavy]

“I just want my sailors to live”

“To date, 73 service members have died. Of those, 71 were completely unvaccinated, Pentagon spokesman Army Maj. Charlie Dietz said on Wednesday, and two had received the first of a two-dose regimen.”

 

[SlickAg]

“Some 580 members of the military, among active duty, reserves and National Guard, died by suicide in 2020.”

Suicide rate among active duty service members increased by 41% between 2015 and 2020

The suicide rate among active duty service members in the US military increased by 41.4% in the five years from 2015 to 2020, according to data provided in the annual report from the Department of Defense on suicide in the military.

www.cnn.com

“The safety center also lists 17 motorcycle accidents that killed sailors this fiscal year, up from 11 in 2020.

In his Sept. 8 message to the fleet, Del Toro wrote that he signed six letters of condolence to the survivors of sailors killed in motorcycle accidents during his first three weeks on the job.

“Even one loss of a Sailor or Marine to a motorcycle fatality is too many,” he wrote. “However, the frequency of these fatalities alone underscores the need to aggressively address motorcycle safety.””

SECNAV urges sailors to stay safe following a rise in traffic fatalities

The sea service has seen a rise in off-duty traffic deaths this fiscal year.

www.navytimes.com

 

[Mirage]

There were vaccines here at Big State U mandated for admission and attendance before the Covid pandemic. For civilian work I had to go overseas as a core part of my job, which required a bunch of vaccinations, most I’d already had thanks to the Navy.

All this talk about being anti-mandate and not anti-vax, that’s great for you. But the anti-vax, vax fear, and vax hesitancy came first. Mouth breathing stupid shit like this came first, where this woman got to speak and make the case the vaccines magnetize you in front of a state legislature. JFC…

View attachment 33403

By even entertaining this moronitude it helped to mainstream the batshit crazy and help turn people against what is an incredibly safe and effective medicine, which we know is safe because a billion people have taken it.

The anti-vax, the irrational fear came first.

Vaccines mandated by your university are completely different than ones ordered unilaterally by the President to be given to everyone who works at a company employing more than 100 people (which is a random bar and will likely change to be even more inclusive soon). My issue isn't with companies or universities deciding they need to mandate it, it's with the federal govt (and only 1 person in it, at that). And again, I only disagree with this because the vaccine does not even slow down the spread of the virus after a few short months, and only does that by a small amount, so it effectively only helps the person it is given to.

Anti-vax fear came first because the vax came before the mandate. How's that relevant to a point anyone has made here arguing against the mandate? You're fighting ghosts. That aside, I find it shocking you are complaining that she "got to speak... in front of a state legislature." In a representative democracy, it should be appalling if the reverse were true! Another point you and others have made that really makes me question what "American values" actually are. Apparently the ones I grew up with and believe deeply are just not as widespread as I thought. In this case, the quote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" applies, and with the vax mandate, I'd change it to "I disapprove of your decision not to get the vax, but I will defend to the death your right to make it".

 

[UInavy]

Sobering statistics about suicide and motorcycle fatalities.

As I’ve said repeatedly, if motorcycle deaths and injuries or suicides could be greatly reduced with a two-shot series, I’d hope that would be supported or mandated as well.

Until then:
“To date, 73 service members have died. Of those, 71 were completely unvaccinated, Pentagon spokesman Army Maj. Charlie Dietz said on Wednesday, and two had received the first of a two-dose regimen.”

 

[Spekkio]

Vaccines mandated by your university are completely different than ones ordered unilaterally by the President to be given to everyone who works at a company employing more than 100 people (which is a random bar and will likely change to be even more inclusive soon). My issue isn't with companies or universities deciding they need to mandate it, it's with the federal govt (and only 1 person in it, at that). And again, I only disagree with this because the vaccine does not even slow down the spread of the virus after a few short months, and only does that by a small amount, so it effectively only helps the person it is given to.

A key footnote to Biden's executive order is that there's an alternative to vaccination - weekly testing. The existence of that option makes this rule no different than requiring someone to wear safety goggles at work.

The myriad of labor disuputes on the issue are largely over who pays for that testing.