Basically a Covid morning after pill
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Navy Reserve COVID Vaccinations by October
- Thread starter snake020
- Start date
We aren't getting double charged. We're paying for two separate things. Although that's a maybe because I think several of the vaccines were developed using independent R&D funds.
Roger. But if federal, state, local, and private sector organizations en masse are mandating the shot to remain employed, it’s no longer capitalism/ free choice of the market. And the “Oh it’s capitalism” argument holds zero water.
Annual influenza shots are not a good counterpoint because 1) they aren’t compulsory in the vast majority of the private sector, and 2) they are generic, inexpensive, and not a monopoly/oligopoly. And they have a far longer track record of use so people have better data on the side effect risks.
Paying the Chinese to create the virus then paying for vaccines is still getting double charged
I'm not sure what this has to do with the post of mine you quoted. Earlier you had said "we've paid twice" and I said "no, we've paid for different things." Via Operation Warp Speed the government paid several pharma companies to develop, test, and jf viable, produce a ton of vaccines. Some companies had largely developed a vax prior to OWS and only needed the funding to test and produce their vax. So, the government is not paying twice, they're just paying for a lot of things they don't usually pay for, ie your insurance company will cover the cost of a tetanus booster or flu shot and the dispensing of that shot and not the USG.
Even more, I'm not sure how what you've posted is connected to any of the other discussion here or what the point is. Are you trying to say that the drug market isn't capitalism because government has created the demand signal via mandates? If so, welcome to the world of govt contracting. The govt often makes it's own requirements and then gets the free market to make stuff for them to meet those requirements. See aircraft carriers and F-35s.
By that logic Google, Amazon, Alibaba and maybe even Tesla ought to owe Uncle Sam a shitload in royalties.
Swing and a miss.
Are private sector employers en masse forcing employees to be a lifelong customer of Alibaba (with a host of potential long term health side effects that aren’t yet studied or well known) as a condition of continued employment? Alibaba can’t possibly give you a health side effect. And you also aren’t compelled to be a customer of Alibaba in your private life in order to keep your day job. These companies are playing doctor and virtue signaling when they have no business doing either.
If people want to get the mRNA shot, that’s cool. If they don’t, they should not lose their private sector job over it. Funny how companies are trying to woo new hires with “fully remote work” then expect them to get a mRNA shot or vaccine in order to join Zoom calls from home.
This has nothing to do with what Flash responded to. Your original post was about tax dollars and what I assumed was "how much of the intellectual property does the USG own based on their investment of tax dollars?" The point @Flash was making to your original post was that the USG has invested a lot of money in many industries that then benefit the private sector.
Not what I was highlighting, but
EDIT: Pags gets it! Win one for reading comprehension.
Private sector job, private sector rules. Employees don't have to get the shot if they aren't employees anymore, freedom of choice at its finest.
As for requiring employees to get the shot while sitting at home, since healthcare is often provided as part of employment in this country it is perfectly reasonable for a private corporation to require its employees take basic safety precautions as a condition of employment. You can also bet there is the cost factor as well, likely incentivized by many employers health insurance providers. Ain't capitalism grand?
Some thoughts on the relationships at play:
-Individuals have a right to make their own medical decisions in their own personal bubble...but people don't exist in just their own bubble
-companies are able to set workplace rules for employees that are more restrictive such as drug testing, what you can say on the clock, haircuts, uniforms, etc. Companies also get to make decisions that affect their bottom line wrt to insurance costs (which companies pay a lot of), liability, desired company image, etc. Companies are also legally obligated by the government to provide a safe workplace
-the government can set workplace safety requirements via OSHA, FDA, FAA, etc type orgs. In addition, the govt can set requirements for taking the governments business. Also, govt (usually state and more local) can set public health criteria as determined is necessary to protect the population such as school vax requirements.
-individuals are free to challenge restrictions from their employer or govt via the courts
I kmow what he was trying to say. The key difference between these mRNA shots and some invention funded with help from the US government is that these shots are being systematically forced onto everyone (even if you don’t need it, don’t want it, and your primary care doctor advises against it). There are laws against monopolies and against collusion. It’s pretty clear that there is collusion at high levels to take choice away from people who simply want to keep their current job. I have an employee I lead who works remotely, never goes TDY, and is requesting a religious waiver. They are going to fire him if the waiver is denied and whoever replaces him will be worse at the job because he is a rock star. It’s complete BS and a coercive measure from a company that only wants to virtue signal how avant garde it’s being. What’s next on the list of corporate America’s rules - you’re not allowed as a private sector employee to have unprotected sex with a stranger because you could spread a deadly virus to others?
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Can't wait for the day that employers fire all fat people and everyone over 50 to keep insurance costs low, COVID-19 or not. Pending job ad... 'must be under 220 lbs for men or 150 lbs for women.'
Sadly, this would disqualify the majority of the American work force from employment.
But hey, while we're at it, let's just avoid hiring women altogether. They cost more to insure and babies are expensive.
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If you knew what he was trying to say you sure didn't respond like it. You're all over the place and even the conspiracy theory I think you're trying to present isn't well articulated (big pharma is in league with the USG to ensure they make as much profit as possible via vaccine mandates?). I think it's pretty clear there is scientific and management consensus that vaxs are what is required to keep the federal workforce at work. That pharma companies are making bank is just how capitalism works. Same as defense contractors when there's a war on.
If I recall you're a govt contractor. If still the case there's no virtue signaling, it's compliance with federal requirements so they can stay in business.
What makes you think the bold portion, out of curiosity? And who are you referring to as "management"? You're also specifically referencing the federal workforce, where HW is talking about private sector. Was that a slipup, and you didn't mean to reference federal?
I ask, because management within the "federal workforce" is mostly under orders in one shape or another to keep silent on the issue, with the exception of the heads of each department/service/etc... so we have no idea if there's a consensus or not, just what the bosses (who are themselves bound to agree with Biden) 'think'. If you meant civilian management, then look around... I don't see many companies mandating the vax of their own free will. Even companies who are threatened with a mandate because they are federal contractors are declining to mandate it (like most airlines). If you can come up with 1 or 2 companies who are, I bet I can come up with 1000 or 2000 who are not.
And as for scientists... I'm sure you've seen it, but you can easily find footage of scientists who supposedly represent the consensus, such as Fauci, saying there should not be a mandate. Kind of besides the point anyway, though, since they are not qualified to speak on what is best for society... only what is best to limit the spread of the virus. Those two things are different.
I think the bold part because just about every country in the world supported by their best apolitical virologists, epidemiologists, and public health professionals have come to the same answer that the vaccines are safe and necessary to return to normal life. If that's not scientific and management consensus I'm not sure what is.
There are also many other companies that are mandating the vax. You can Google them if you like. They're certainly not all the companies ever but there's more than zero. That and the new OSHA rules will essentially require it just as OSHA rules have required lots of other workplace safety things. But that's how govt works for the workers to provide a framework that companies have to comply with otherwise we'd still have child labor and be working 12hrs a day for 6 days a week and buying all of our mining equipment from the company store.
As to defense contractors if they want to continue to get the king's coin they need to follow the king's rules. I don't think they need to mandate the vax as they can test but I doubt many companies are going to want to take on the cost of testing. The big defense contractor I work with every day has a stricter mandate policy in place than the govt. I saw whole companies come to a halt for 3+ weeks this past winter due to covid racing through their building. Shutdowns like that had direct impacts on the fleet and those companies' bottom lines.
When I say federal workforce I mean mil, gov, css, and oems that make it all happen.