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Navy Reserve COVID Vaccinations by October

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I'm pointing out that I believe more people would get the vaccine if they were not being forced to.
This is a bizarre statement. Clearly, a significant portion of the population wasn't getting vaccinated of their own accord. Just look at some recent examples with the military, where the Navy went from ~70% vaccinated to over 99% once a mandate was in force. Similar examples in many police departments. Mandates work... even if you don't like them.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
The conviction of your argument against mandates in pretend, internet-land is affected by your willingness to submit the the mandate in the real world.
No it doesn’t. That makes no sense. My argument against mandates has absolutely nothing to do with my personal choices. That does shine some light on your struggles with logic though.
 

UInavy

Registered User
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
No it doesn’t. That makes no sense. My argument against mandates has absolutely nothing to do with my personal choices. That does shine some light on your struggles with logic though.
Or you’re having trouble resolving the cognitive dissonance between your pretend internet arguments and your real world actions.
 

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
Or you’re having trouble resolving the cognitive dissonance between your pretend internet arguments and your real world actions.
So someone cannot both disagree with an order and obey it? Is that your assertion?

This is a bizarre statement. Clearly, a significant portion of the population wasn't getting vaccinated of their own accord. Just look at some recent examples with the military, where the Navy went from ~70% vaccinated to over 99% once a mandate was in force. Similar examples in many police departments. Mandates work... even if you don't like them.
You're something, man. You posted saying we need to find a way to convince people to get the vax once they realize it is the better option to them. I stated that the way to do that is to stop trying to force those people to do it against their will. It's human psychology 101. Many people will comply with a mandate, just like many people would order the pizza in my silly analogy. Many others will never comply with a mandate, but if you leave them alone and sit the pizza on the counter, they might eat some eventually.

Put another way... how do you get someone out of their trenches? Stop shooting at them.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Or you’re having trouble resolving the cognitive dissonance between your pretend internet arguments and your real world actions.
If I was saying people shouldn’t get vaccinated because the Bill Gates microchip will force them to join his sterilized zombie army, my choice would impact the credibility of my conviction.

But I never told anyone not to get vaccinated. I think they should be free to decide. I think the DoD policy will hurt readiness more than the waning stage of covid. My choice is completely irrelevant.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
You posted saying we need to find a way to convince people to get the vax once they realize it is the better option to them.
That's not what I said. My post was about providing a means of saving face for those whose anti-vax stance has become part of their identity.
 

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
That's not what I said. My post was about providing a means of saving face for those whose anti-vax stance has become part of their identity.
Yes, I understood what you said perfectly, and my response is my opinion on how to solve that problem. You want the anti-vax folks to stop fighting it and be able to save face and take it? Stop giving them something to fight. Forcing them to bend to your opinion will never work. They have to make that decision themselves.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
You're something, man. You posted saying we need to find a way to convince people to get the vax once they realize it is the better option to them. I stated that the way to do that is to stop trying to force those people to do it against their will. It's human psychology 101. Many people will comply with a mandate, just like many people would order the pizza in my silly analogy. Many others will never comply with a mandate, but if you leave them alone and sit the pizza on the counter, they might eat some eventually.
The military mandates a flu shot each year, which is also dumb because A) it's only about 40% effective and B) the flu isn't going to kill military-aged people. Regardless, it's the military and it operates under a different set of rules, and I think you understand that.

As for the civilian 'mandate' from the President, you keep glossing over the fact that there really isn't a mandate to get the vaccine. It's get the vaccine or institute a weekly testing program. Any business that mandates vaccines or bust or who quits out of refusal to adhere to the policy is doing so on their own volition... isn't that what you wanted?
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Yes, I understood what you said perfectly, and my response is my opinion on how to solve that problem. You want the anti-vax folks to stop fighting it and be able to save face and take it? Stop giving them something to fight. Forcing them to bend to your opinion will never work. They have to make that decision themselves.
I disagree with your opinion.
 

UInavy

Registered User
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
So someone cannot both disagree with an order and obey it? Is that your assertion?

................... I think they should be free to decide. ........................... My choice is completely irrelevant.

No to both. Many folks execute orders or tasks with which they disagree on a daily basis. However, the strength of one's convictions is directly related to one's willingness to face negative consequences in order to stand up for said conviction. If one is against a mandate, yet still willing to comply, their conviction against that mandate isn't strong. Their conviction reaches its limit when their own self-interest, in terms of avoiding negative repercussions of non-compliance, outweighs whatever level of conviction they have. That is true whether the order is to clean a toilet or get a vaccine.

This is the same crowd on here that constantly rails against leadership (or anyone outside of their set of beliefs) having actions which do not match their words. When faced with real-world decisions, it appears this crowd acts in the manner of which the constantly accuse others- their own self-interest.

(And, 'no' in advance- I'm not going back to cite where you stated the above.)
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
whoa, a day of yard work and there's 4 new pages of dialog. Anyway…
ghosts. That aside, I find it shocking you are complaining that she "got to speak... in front of a state legislature."
Well, let me be precise.

She was invited by members of the Republican Party to speak as an expert witness.

A woman who believes the vaccine magnetizes you, and “proved” it in a manner worthy of Uri Geller, was considered an expert on vaccines.

Do you now, or have you ever, thought any vaccine could turn your body into a magnet? Of course not (I hope). This means you or I are infinitely more qualified to speak as an expert witness on the vaccine than she was. But we weren’t asked. She was.
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
A key footnote to Biden's executive order is that there's an alternative to vaccination - weekly testing.
No serious employer is even hinting at offering this. It’s get the mRNA shot or get fired, in their eyes. Many employees are pleading to be given this option. Employers don’t care. It’s not a cost thing, either, weirdly - the cost of replacing 1 FTE on my program is about $20-50k, give or take. That includes lost revenue from a gapped billet.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
No to both. Many folks execute orders or tasks with which they disagree on a daily basis. However, the strength of one's convictions is directly related to one's willingness to face negative consequences in order to stand up for said conviction. If one is against a mandate, yet still willing to comply, their conviction against that mandate isn't strong. Their conviction reaches its limit when their own self-interest, in terms of avoiding negative repercussions of non-compliance, outweighs whatever level of conviction they have. That is true whether the order is to clean a toilet or get a vaccine.

This is the same crowd on here that constantly rails against leadership (or anyone outside of their set of beliefs) having actions which do not match their words. When faced with real-world decisions, it appears this crowd acts in the manner of which the constantly accuse others- their own self-interest.

(And, 'no' in advance- I'm not going back to cite where you stated the above.)
Jesus dude. I think everyone should be able to make the choice for themselves without being coerced. I made the choice I thought was best for me and I think others do the same. It’s not complicated. Sorry to deprive you of your bullshit gotcha moment.
 

UInavy

Registered User
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Jesus dude. I think everyone should be able to make the choice for themselves without being coerced. I made the choice I thought was best for me and I think others do the same. It’s not complicated. Sorry to deprive you of your bullshit gotcha moment.
Complying with orders isn’t interchangeable with ‘coercion into a particular choice’. Important distinction.
 

AllAmerican75

FUBIJAR
None
Contributor
Im against mandates, but after billions of doses and a year and a half since the first people got the shots, I’m really inclined to be in camp “modern medical miracle.” Obviously, that opinion changed from healthy skepticism at first. But it really does seem at this point that it is a modern marvel. It’s not 100% perfect as no vaccine is, but it does seem close.

Out of curiosity, have you also been informing yourself by tracking VAERS (https://openvaers.com/) and Vaccine Safety Datalink reports?
 
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