Naval Aviations "One" Problem...

[Flash]

Yeah, I've had this discussion here before and still can't believe it. The ANG will work with folks to get them their AD retirement if they're close. In fact, it's encouraged by all levels of leadership. It's a win/win. Billets get filled by folks who volunteer and the volunteers get their career goals met. Tons of ADOS and STAT tours for 3-4 years out there at all of the MAJCOM bases just for this reason. Lots of ability to homestead and keep family stability. It can be a bit of work to keep flying, but it's not impossible by any means.

The Army folks I deployed with were always amazed at the Navy's aversion to letting us get sanctuary, I personally knew at least half a dozen Army Reserve folks who made or were about to make sanctuary. I knew of only two Navy folks who made sanctuary, through anecdotes passed along at drill weekends, one was a CAPT who was BNR'd by a VADM and the other was a Chief that slipped through somehow. I also know a guy who was 10 days away from sanctuary on orders that took him to almost 19 years when his orders got changed, NAVRES 'fixed the glitch' just in time!

The rationale behind it is that mil retirement pay between day 1 of retirement and age 60 is funded by the services; after that it comes out of the VA budget. So sanctuary works to the service's benefit too because they know that CDR Timmy is retirement eligible in two years and they can budget accordingly. Since Reservists don't necessarily work that way, they can't budget that way, and so they don't let them do it.

I'm pretty sure military retirement comes out of the DoD budget for the entire length of a servicemember's retirement and doesn't switch over to the VA at age 60, if that is what you are saying, except when someone has less than 50% VA disability and a military retirement then I don't know how it is split.

Could you change things and make it work to everyone's benefit (sailor and Navy)? I have never yet seen an explanation why not, except "it's hard." And it would certainly help at least some IA pain. But the Navy refuses to do it, and has for years.

I was told by several folks smarter about Navy Reserve budget stuff (didn't take much) that for the Navy in particular it had to do with who in the Navy ended up having to pay for it, and for the Navy is was the Navy Reserve that had to pay for a Navy reservist's retirement 'out of hide' until age 60. I don't know the veracity of that but it kinda made sense to someone who is somewhat familiar with how government budgets work.

The Guard takes off a day of age 60 for each day you are deployed overseas, in 90 day increments. That, with some AGR time got me 53% at just past my 58th birthday. Does the Navy Reserve do that too?

It is a universal DoD thing/law, though it is dependent on the type of orders you get (most qualify, but it is worth double checking your orders). When it first took effect back in '08 the 90 day clock reset at the beginning of the FY, if you were less than 90 it went back to 0, but they 'fixed the glitch' a few years later.

I know quite a few airline guys who did years active duty during their furloughs, one had done almost 7 years active and was going to get his retirement less than 3 years after retiring because of that rule.

 

[SemperFiFamilialLoyalty]

You'll get at least as many opinions as there are members here on this one, but I'd say the biggest issue is denial about the manning crisis. From what I hear, it's gotten bad. People have been leaving in droves for years, and the training command isn't allocated the resources it needs (planes, pilots, etc.) to train an adequate number of replacement pilots, even in an environment with higher retention ("up or out" takes pilots away regardless.)

Hmmm. Maybe I'll change my answer to "resources in the training commands".

The "up or out" bites the military in the ass more than help it. I know plenty of people who would have stayed in till their bodies gave out or moved into a different MOS just to stay in (till 60+ like many countries), without jeopardizing the op or their brothers, if they could. They want to be in (sleeve Tats and all) for the "young ones", their brothers and to make sure to newbies are up to snuff. The way things are don't help man power. We are a voluntary military; not a draft/ mandatory one like many other countries. You're looking at a top to bottom issue that many have been complaining about for decades and is being ignored.....

 

[SemperFiFamilialLoyalty]

I don't think the pay is anywhere near the push factor many people, especially at the higher levels, seem to think it is. Yes, the pay is very good at the airlines, but the pay+benefits are also very good as an O-4+ in the military. What I really see driving good pilots to get out of the military are the lack of control/predictability with regards to one's career and where you have to live. Unfortunately, those are often just the nature of the military. If we let everyone pick their duty station no questions asked, the Marine Corps may as well just close every MCAS except Kaneohe Bay, Miramar, and Camp Pendleton.

One issue I think needs some serious examination is the ever-growing administrative work that makes it so difficult to focus on the few times a month we do fly. How many times have we all heard someone say, "Hey dude, I'll handle that later; I'm in my flight box now"? Compared to airline pilots (really any professional aviator outside the military), when they're not in their flight box, 99% of the time they're off the clock entirely. What a dream that would be. For whatever reason, we've accepted mediocrity in the sense that we have aviators being Admin-Os, Log-Os, Comm-Os, Legal-Os...all jobs which have Primary MOS-producing schoolhouses and in a ground battalion you'd see an actual PMOS-holder doing that job. But we can't staff our flying squadrons the same way? I don't buy it. Sometime, somewhere, somebody up the chain had to decide that.

The other is the relative lack of flight time, again, compared to basically every other field of professional pilots. Admittedly, maintenance is the key limiting factor here. Certain T/M/S (looking right at my own as well as CH-53s) will never be able to fly as much as others due to maintenance burden, but there are creative solutions around this. Look at the Air Force's B-2 and U-2 squadrons. You're crazy if they think those crews take those national assets out for FAM/INST sorties on the regular. They have T-38As, the most basic steam gauge jet in the DoD, for that. I don't think it's crazy to wonder if we could get two T-6s, with contract maintenance, assigned to each squadron for the same purpose.

🤣 I'm pretty sure that only the unmarried Marine pilots never complain about anything. If they're on a carrier they have it made. Not to mention the ego most have would never allow them to. (Almost certain only Marsoc/Hog's turned pilots/ CIA-DIA guys have more egos; I hope to one day be proven wrong ). That said, bureaucracy is a kill joy. (Point in case: even TV/film/anime etc make fun of it. See exhibit A: Ed VS Col.Mustang VS PAPERWORK Full Metal Alchemist) If we take into account "inter agency/ branch cooperation" and DoD budget I honestly don't know why suggestions like yours aren't taken seriously; it would be a boon in your favor.

 

[Brett327]

🤣 I'm pretty sure that only the unmarried Marine pilots never complain about anything. If they're on a carrier they have it made. Not to mention the ego most have would never allow them to. (Almost certain only Marsoc/Hog's turned pilots/ CIA-DIA guys have more egos; I hope to one day be proven wrong ). That said, bureaucracy is a kill joy. (Point in case: even TV/film/anime etc make fun of it. See exhibit A: Ed VS Col.Mustang VS PAPERWORK Full Metal Alchemist) If we take into account "inter agency/ branch cooperation" and DoD budget I honestly don't know why suggestions like yours aren't taken seriously; it would be a boon in your favor.

 

[hscs]

🤣 I'm pretty sure that only the unmarried Marine pilots never complain about anything. If they're on a carrier they have it made. Not to mention the ego most have would never allow them to. (Almost certain only Marsoc/Hog's turned pilots/ CIA-DIA guys have more egos; I hope to one day be proven wrong ). That said, bureaucracy is a kill joy. (Point in case: even TV/film/anime etc make fun of it. See exhibit A: Ed VS Col.Mustang VS PAPERWORK Full Metal Alchemist) If we take into account "inter agency/ branch cooperation" and DoD budget I honestly don't know why suggestions like yours aren't taken seriously; it would be a boon in your favor.

13 posts in.....can't wait to see how long you last.

 

[HSMPBR]

*** FY24 ADHRB update: Expected Program Proposition to be signed 4/26/24. Expect NAVADMIN to be release by May 3. ***​

FY24 ADHRB expectations:​

- 3/5/7 yr contracts
- New T/M/S tiers up to $40k/yr AND
- Additional location incentive for slated location of Japan, Lemoore and Guam up to $10k/yr (T/M/S dependent)​

Hot and fresh from PERS.

 

[SemperFiFamilialLoyalty]

13 posts in.....can't wait to see how long you last.

Considering I’ve already been politely asked to F off....questionable. To be fair though, i’ve “been on” the site for years (off and on). I’ve only just now bothered to make an account.

We shall see. We shall see. Animal mother, classic. It’s been a hot minute since I re watched Full Metal Jacket; I’ll be sure to add it to the summer movie night pool, thanks. And Thanks for the vote of confidence 😅

 

[Brett327]

Considering I’ve already been politely asked to F off....questionable.

It's just that you're putting off a very strong BTDT got three in my pocket vibe, which is going to come off poorly with most of the folks on this site who actually have. My friendly recommendation is to pull your throttles out of MAX and you'll have a much more productive experience on this site.

 

[SemperFiFamilialLoyalty]

It's just that you're putting off a very strong BTDT got three in my pocket vibe, which is going to come off poorly with most of the folks on this site who actually have. My friendly recommendation is to pull your throttles out of MAX and you'll have a much more productive experience on this site.

Actually, both Socrates and Aristotle seem to have a "christian" theme in their works, despite being pagans. Socrates was and still is seen by scholars to be a type of "Christ"; with much of his work and life paralleling the Bible. Yes, unless it's a long time hobby or you had mandatory religious classes (of various religions, and ideologies you had to cross reference) you need a lot of work, digging, patience and some knowledge of the original languages scripture was translated into (along with understanding the context of the eras in which they were written. The meaning of words and phrases change over time; if you're over 20 you've seen this in you life time). Also, ALOT of things (meaning, detail etc.) get lost in translation (A personal pet peeve of mine).

I'm not understanding this. I'm not exactly a scholar, but I don't remember Aristotle saying anything about immaculate conception of a demi-god or how faith >> reason. Quite the opposite really.

It has nothing to do with outright mentioning such things. Rather, the general theme, concepts and basis for and in his works. My brain is currently on overload with the ancient philosophers; I have to reread and read all their works for a finals exam so I apologize if I wasn't specific enough.

Hey bro? Respectfully, fuck off.

I was referring to Fester, from posts in a reading thread. No one cares about my 2cents worth & it’s just that, 2cents on an online thread. Throttles off. (As a side note does this thing even let you copy quotes to put them in private conversations? If it does I haven’t found the tab yet). Also, I do apologize, brutal honestly and all data points on the table is what everyone around me expects and is used to.

 

[hscs]

To Fester’s credit, he did say “respectfully,” a shortened version of with all due respect…..

 

[Roger_Waveoff]

As far as MATSG - We tend to send fleet burnouts, short timers, and questionable talent to MATSG. You should be able to logically see the impact that has long term. Good gals/guys? Sure, but maybe not the right instructor.

I also have a rub against pilots who do the bare minimum to not get FFPB and get a “good deal” vice the 6 year fleet tour and 3 pump guy/gal who needs to take a break but still has a passion to instruct (Not to mentioned we’re getting paid the same). Bottom line: A better quality spread amongst all our staffing goals wouldn’t hurt and add value to the fleet.

I heard through the grapevine (so take it with a grain of salt) that the current VT-35 CO wants any V-22 pilots coming to instruct in T-44s or T-54s to be at least NSIs. Very curious to see if this has panned out whatsoever, but going by how difficult it is to produce an NSI, my gut tells me it is not at all realistic.

From the MMOA perspective, "HAC/TAC to FAC to flight school" has been gaining traction as a means by which to incentivize volunteering for FAC tours vice forcing it on people. From what I've seen on the last few vacancy lists, it's only for the less desirable tours (MEU Assistant Air Officer, 29 Palms UDP or MEU). I have a couple peers who are currently on the FAC tour portion of these drug deals; gonna be watching closely to see what their experiences are at the FITUs and first few months of instructing in CNATRA.

 

[dcushman13]

*** FY24 ADHRB update: Expected Program Proposition to be signed 4/26/24. Expect NAVADMIN to be release by May 3. ***​

FY24 ADHRB expectations:​

- 3/5/7 yr contracts​

- New T/M/S tiers up to $40k/yr AND​

- Additional location incentive for slated location of Japan, Lemoore and Guam up to $10k/yr (T/M/S dependent)​

Hot and fresh from PERS.

I guess you're shit out of luck if your T/M/S isn't homeported at one of those locations. 🤷‍♂️

 

[sevenhelmet]

I guess you're shit out of luck if your T/M/S isn't homeported at one of those locations. 🤷‍♂️

As far as the location incentive? I guess that’s true, but at least you’re not in Lemoore.

 

[Swanee]

*** FY24 ADHRB update: Expected Program Proposition to be signed 4/26/24. Expect NAVADMIN to be release by May 3. ***​

FY24 ADHRB expectations:​

- 3/5/7 yr contracts​

- New T/M/S tiers up to $40k/yr AND​

- Additional location incentive for slated location of Japan, Lemoore and Guam up to $10k/yr (T/M/S dependent)​

Hot and fresh from PERS.

An extra 800 bucks a month, pretax, to live in Lemoore.

"But we get an extra 10k per year to live there" just isn't enough. 50k? How much does your spouse make now? It has to be at least that much to make the money even part of the conversation.

 

[ChuckMK23]

An extra 800 bucks a month, pretax, to live in Lemoore.

"But we get an extra 10k per year to live there" just isn't enough. 50k? How much does your spouse make now? It has to be at least that much to make the money even part of the conversation.

So it sounds like big Navy is really saying not to consider marriage and family while you are AD. I tend to see mil aviators waiting to mid 30's to have marriage and kids anyways.

Or simply choose a young woman without career ambitions outside of being a wife and mother, if that's still possible.I do have fond memories of young wives that connected and formed supportive communities focused on keeping life interesting and providing resources while we deployed and pursued our early careers. Probably an anachronism now.