jboomer said:
I wasn't advocating the behavior. I agree that we are held to a higher standard, as well we should be. Those involved will and are being punished. But, what happened in that prison (that was released to the public anyway) was used by the media in a way that was uncalled for. They used it to stir up anti-American sentiment and they pointed their fingers at every American, not only those few involved. Americans were (are?) even using it as a basis to protest the war.Those groups that our troops are fighting now used it (with the help of OUR media) as a platform to build support for their cause (killing Americans) and for what? Sexual humiliation and pretty minor physical abuse (aside from the handful (2 or 3?) of murders that took place inside that prison). Little is mentioned about the roadside bombs, indescriminate killings, random mortarings, kidnappings, and beheadings that are taking place. I know the reason it was made such a big deal is because more is expected from us, but to blow it out of proportion like it was was just unjustified.
I think it's perfectly natural to vent like this guy did...his tact leaves a little to be desired, but I'm not going to ostracize him for it. He expressed an opinion, it wasn't grossly out of line, so big deal.
And in my best Forest Gump voice (which really isn't that good by the way) "and that's all I've got to say about that."
Americans have a long tradition of treating POW's and others humanely and within the confines of international law, even when our enemies do not. There are several notable exceptions to that, inclding battlefield incidents in almost every war. But the official and generally accepted norm has been to follow the rules.
We went into the war saying that we were there to liberate the Iraqi people, and I believe that. But how is everyone else suppose to believe that if we treat them like this. Well, you say that they are nothing but terrorists, but maybe they are not. How do we know? One of the guys who got the crap beat out of him was a Syrian who shot and killed a US guard with a gun smuggled into the prison. Who gave the guards the authority to be judge and jury? Since when did they become nothing more than a lynch mob? That is one thing that distigushes a civilized society. While I understand why it happened, it does not make it right. And it was not just the instance of a couple guys blowing off steam, the accused ringleader among the guards is (Specialist Garner) by many accounts a sadistic bastard who has been disciplined in the past when he was a civilian prison guard. Insubordination and disregard for the rules were rampant, just read the reports.
And it was not them just humiliating the prisoners, there were widespread instances of abuse, physical and psychological. That is what every investigation has found.
What suprises me most is that some people think that torture works. Whiel it might work in some instances, it is generally much less effective than other forms of interogation. One just has to look at history. How effective were the Vietnamese and the N Koreans at getting useful inforation out of Allied POW's, not very. There is an article in an unclassified CIA magazine about a the highest ranking Viet Cong/NVA prisoner captured durtng the war, who was interogated by the US guys and tortured by S Vietnamese and never gave up info,
for 7 years. The article was written by one of the CIA guys who interrogated him (without torture) and argued against the effectivness of torture.
On the opposite end, one of the most effective interrogators in WW II was a Luftwaffe guy who became famous for getting info out of pilots shot down. He was very nice and got reams of info, because he knew how to get it. The is even a book written about him,
The Interrogator.
As for the media stoking up discontent and hatred, they might have done a lot of reporting on it but you have to understand, here is the worlds biggest democracy and it is beating the daylights out of the people they are suppose to liberate? Good copy for the press. They are merely a convienient scapegoat. What do you expect them to do, cover it up? They only give the people what they want.
