More Inter-agency Law Enforcement Incompetence: King Schools Owners Falsely Arrested

[FlyingOnFumes]

http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2010/100830kings.html?WT.mc_id=ebrief

John and Martha King of King Schools (who among other things, created the Cessna equivalent of a "Total Syllabus" courseware for the Cessna 172 Skyhawk SP for Cessna Pilot Centers) were arrested over the weekend at Santa Barbara Airport under the allegations that they were flying a stolen aircraft.

The registration number was recycled from a 1968 Cessna 150J that was reported as stolen 9 years ago and was deregistered before being reused for the brand new Cessna 172 Skyhawk SP (NAV III).

I was on the phone with my former flight instructor while this was happening and it was unreal to get a play-by-play commentary from him and were joking, based on his descirption, if they are in fact John and Martha King of King Schools. I thought.. "Nahhhh! It can't be them." And then I see the news this morning: Holy Cow!

While on the phone, we went on the FAA website and in about 1-2 minutes max we saw that the registration number had been re-registered to the new aircraft... something that not one of the law enforcement agency had bothered to do prior to drawing guns on them.

 

[rare21]

I've pulled over people in a vehicle who's license plates came back to a stolen vehicle and got Grandpa Joe and Grandma Flo out at gunpoint. Then it comes back that they removed it from the system a while back but due to human error never left the Texas wide system (sometimes country wide). its an apology and be on your way..if they want more then call your local news..i dont know john and martha king from Adam and Eve so they come out at gunpoint too. As I tell most (and no offense) "go complain about it on the internet."

 

[ryan1234]

I've pulled over people in a vehicle who's license plates came back to a stolen vehicle and got Grandpa Joe and Grandma Flo out at gunpoint. Then it comes back that they removed it from the system a while back but due to human error never left the Texas wide system (sometimes country wide). its an apology and be on your way..if they want more then call your local news..i dont know john and martha king from Adam and Eve so they come out at gunpoint too. As I tell most (and no offense) "go complain about it on the internet."

Gun point for an aircraft stolen 9 years ago.... that wasn't even the same model or even close to the year? - the aircraft is a 2009 ...obviously impossible to be stolen 9 years ago....hmmm.....?

General Aviation registration numbers are recycled all of the time... and the FAA process about 30 days to verify the new registration number has been deregistered and assign it accordingly. That FAA registration number, CLEARLY belongs to a 172S model according to the FAA database. Not only that, but it's the second time that has happened to the same aircraft. Another guy was met by police when he picked it up from Wichita (Cessna Factory).... maybe that should have sparked a "report" or "inquiry".

 

[FlyinRock]

Someone must have a hard on for them. It will all come out eventually. Such stupid shit.....

 

[SkywardET]

What's the phrase for this? Headwork? Attention to detail?

Nah, it's best to terrorize citizens first, then find out what's going on...

 

[scoolbubba]

What's the phrase for this? Headwork? Attention to detail?

Nah, it's best to terrorize citizens first, then find out what's going on...

I've got to agree with this. I'm all for protecting police officers, but when it comes down to it, Cops raised their hand and took an oath that put the public before their own safety.

This is monday morning quarterbacking at best, but pulling your sidearm on someone without taking a few seconds to judge the threat level or investigating a bit further doesn't exactly live up to the whole "to protect and serve" plastered all over the side of cruisers.

 

[rare21]

yeah cuz i can tell exactly who's in the car at all times. I dont know if johnny gangbanger is driving or miss daisy is until i get to that driver's window. Sorry i dont have some sort of eagle eye future predictor / facial ID 3-D checker scanning the driver before i make a stop (oh but that would be unconstitutional anyways). And if we did a lot of my brothers would still be alive. I bet most of the cops around here could tell a cessna 172 from a piper tomahawk, (sarcasm completely plastered). It is monday morning quarterbacking at its best and i'm sorry, when i'm doing a felony stop i'm not searching my 30 dollar cell phone's google page to find out about registration numbers...i'm doing my job. Imagine that!

 

[Swanee]

yeah cuz i can tell exactly who's in the car at all times. I dont know if johnny gangbanger is driving or miss daisy is until i get to that driver's window. Sorry i dont have some sort of eagle eye future predictor / facial ID 3-D checker scanning the driver before i make a stop (oh but that would be unconstitutional anyways). And if we did a lot of my brothers would still be alive. I bet most of the cops around here could tell a cessna 172 from a piper tomahawk, (sarcasm completely plastered). It is monday morning quarterbacking at its best and i'm sorry, when i'm doing a felony stop i'm not searching my 30 dollar cell phone's google page to find out about registration numbers...i'm doing my job. Imagine that!

I would hope that maybe you would look into it a bit more. Last time I checked, cops weren't pulling airplanes out of the sky for speeding or flying erratically. Someone had to calls the cops and say," I think that's a stolen airplane." Maybe someone should have taken the 3 minutes to say hey we are looking for an old 150, not a new 172. I would expect you would do the same for a car, "Hey, we are looking for an old Camaro, not a new Corvette...." If they filed a flight plan... hmmm, why is the flight plan saying there is a different airplane from what kind was stolen? Hey, this is a new airplane... WTF?!...

I understand sometimes you gotta storm in like the Cisco Kid and Poncho, but this doesn't really seem like one of them.
Taking the wrong house or the wrong car or airplane isn't nor should it be the cost of doing business. Get the info right. It is inexcusable for a platoon of Marines to raid the wrong house in Afghanistan, why should it be okay here?

 

[zippy]

Sorry guys, shit happens. The government makes mistakes, Intel is often wrong and the cops who stopped the plane with their guns drawn made the right call.

The idea that a bunch of military officers are advocating that approaching a potential threat unprepared to mitigate and respond to it is the more desirable course of action compared to approaching a threat prepared to counter/neutralize while analyzing the situation as it unfolds is dumbfounding to me. I hope you pull your heads out of your asses and realize the world isn't all sunshine and lollipops before you're in charge of the show (Aircraft/Mission Commander, Strike Lead etc.) down range.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Sorry guys, shit happens. The government makes mistakes, Intel is often wrong and the cops who stopped the plane with their guns drawn made the right call.

I don't think the argument is that the cops had the wrong approach based on the info they had...

The idea that a bunch of military officers are advocating that approaching a potential threat unprepared to mitigate and respond to it is the more desirable course of action compared to approaching a threat prepared to counter/neutralize while analyzing the situation as it unfolds is dumbfounding to me. I hope you pull your heads out of your asses and realize the world isn't all sunshine and lollipops before you're in charge of the show (Aircraft/Mission Commander, Strike Lead etc.) down range.

No, the world is not all sunshine and lollipops... However, as Mission Commander/Strike Lead - do you launch a strike package on a single piece of sole-source intelligence and lay waste to an entire block, or do you actually MISSION PLAN - aka, get multiple intelligence reports, etc...

I say the cops acted correctly in arresting the perps, however - as is systemic throughout this country and law enforcement - the bueracracy prevents good information/intelligence sharing, so the cops look bad in the end. The same as if we struck the wrong target because of poor intelligence. No one blames the intel analysts.

 

[ryan1234]

yeah cuz i can tell exactly who's in the car at all times. I dont know if johnny gangbanger is driving or miss daisy is until i get to that driver's window. Sorry i dont have some sort of eagle eye future predictor / facial ID 3-D checker scanning the driver before i make a stop (oh but that would be unconstitutional anyways). And if we did a lot of my brothers would still be alive. I bet most of the cops around here could tell a cessna 172 from a piper tomahawk, (sarcasm completely plastered). It is monday morning quarterbacking at its best and i'm sorry, when i'm doing a felony stop i'm not searching my 30 dollar cell phone's google page to find out about registration numbers...i'm doing my job. Imagine that!

I just figure that the same plane was in the same situation before. Cops doing their jobs....ok....maybe.... but not the leadership. They should have at the very least coordinated with the FSDO or something for that type of stuff.... it wasn't like they all of the sudden pulled over an airplane and ran the tag.

All I'm saying is that if you're going after aircraft - it wouldn't hurt to know a little about it or coordinate with someone who does....maybe CBP AIAs (I've been surrounded by those guys upon landing...they were actually pretty cool about it all)

 

[Jim123]

I think the airplane recce test is beside the point. Here's what I think though-

Let's say we get a nine year old stolen vehicle report on a mid-eighties Dodge Caravan base model, license plate xyz. Run the tag number and it comes back as a late model Dodge Caravan Country Squire Limited under a different owner. Hmm, let's wait a second before we release the hounds...

The line cops doing the stop followed good procedure- reference rare21's "felony stop" comment. Their marching orders were to stop a stolen airplane. Period. Somebody else higher up the chain did a sloppy job on their homework.

Regarding airplane-related crime, since 9/11, anytime something bad in this country involves an airplane that automatically ups the ante a notch. I think that is ridiculous. I also think it's ridiculous that we have five levels of terror alert when we've never used the lowest two...

 

[zippy]

I don't think the argument is that the cops had the wrong approach based on the info they had...

Actually, that seems to be exactly the argument...

"Gun point for an aircraft stolen 9 years ago.... that wasn't even the same model or even close to the year? - the aircraft is a 2009 ...obviously impossible to be stolen 9 years ago....hmmm.....? "

"Nah, it's best to terrorize citizens first, then find out what's going on..."

"I'm all for protecting police officers, but when it comes down to it, Cops raised their hand and took an oath that put the public before their own safety.

This is monday morning quarterbacking at best, but pulling your sidearm on someone without taking a few seconds to judge the threat level or investigating a bit further doesn't exactly live up to the whole "to protect and serve" plastered all over the side of cruisers."

"I understand sometimes you gotta storm in like the Cisco Kid and Poncho, but this doesn't really seem like one of them."

"They should have at the very least coordinated with the FSDO or something for that type of stuff...."

The idea that Law Enforcement Officer's shouldn't have their weapons drawn during an apprehension, because looking back on the situation theres no way it would have got really dangerous, is ludicrous. The fact that some are even telling the one dude on the forum who actually has first hand experience with those types of situations that the way he conducts himself professionally is wrong is even more ludicrous.

That'd be like me telling you that you really shouldn't have had your crew manning the guns going into the LZ, or during a fast rope raid you did because you should really take the time to get into the hover and taken a look around before hand to see if the local villagers are just sitting there watching your or picking up the RPGs before you have them man the gun so you don't scare the local population while your hovering in the center of town. And while you're at it, don't activate your ASE for the ingress/egress, because theres no real chance of someone shooting a MANPAD at you. I would be completely be talking out of my ass.

I have no issues with criticizing the system for making a mistake. However, unfortunately mistakes happen. A bunch of people talking out of their asses about how the police officers handled themselves during the apprehension, which appeared to be completely professional given the situation, is what I have an issue with.

 

[scoolbubba]

Like it or not, police officers, civil servants, and the military work for the public. Anytime a loaded weapon is pointed at someone, there's the risk people could end up dead.

Forgive me for thinking that the lives of people presumed to be innocent deserve consideration during interaction with the police. Brushing off gross incompetence on the part of the investigating authorities trickling down to the guys with their fingers on the triggers doesn't cut it, least of all in this day and age.

 

[SkywardET]

The idea that Law Enforcement Officer's shouldn't have their weapons drawn during an apprehension, because looking back on the situation theres no way it would have got really dangerous, is ludicrous. The fact that some are even telling the one dude on the forum who actually has first hand experience with those types of situations that the way he conducts himself professionally is wrong is even more ludicrous.

That'd be like me telling you that you really shouldn't have had your crew manning the guns going into the LZ, or during a fast rope raid you did because you should really take the time to get into the hover and taken a look around before hand to see if the local villagers are just sitting there watching your or picking up the RPGs before you have them man the gun so you don't scare the local population while your hovering in the center of town. And while you're at it, don't activate your ASE for the ingress/egress, because theres no real chance of someone shooting a MANPAD at you. I would be completely be talking out of my ass.

I have no issues with criticizing the system for making a mistake. However, unfortunately mistakes happen. A bunch of people talking out of their asses about how the police officers handled themselves during the apprehension, which appeared to be completely professional given the situation, is what I have an issue with.

Okay, so law enforcement should consider America to be a hostile combat zone. Gotcha.

Whatever happened to responding to threats with the appropriate level of force? People, like little 7 year old girls, get killed when police fuck up that principle.