Mathematicians

[Fast Eddie]

I would like to pose this question to the kind officer recruiter helping out in this forum, or anyone else who may be able to help.

I am graduating in May from the University of Maryland with a degree in Mathematics (along with a lot of computer science coursework and work experience).

My college life was highly distracting at best leaving me with about a 2.6-2.7 GPA. However, I scored over 1500 on my SATs in high school, and I am confident I could do extremely well on any test they administer. I have a high level of physical fitness. I'm sure I could complete the 100 pushups, 100 situps, 8.3 minute 1.5mi. (5'10", 190lbs. Trained for competitive powerlifting in college)

This leads me to my question.. do many Mathematicians apply for the cryptology designator? I'm not sure of the duties required, but traditionally advances in cryptology were exclusively the realm of mathematicians, so I was wondering if there was a demand in this designation for them. I actually specialized in number theory, and I wrote a small paper on public key cryptology that I would like to submit with my application.. Are we disallowed (or discouraged for that matter) to submit supplimentary materials like this? Can submissions of letters of recommendation sway the decision considerably? I am good friends with a Navy Captain who would certainly write me a glowing recommendation. He is from Oklahoma and knows Admiral Crowe well (ambassador to UK), so maybe I could talk him into bugging him for a recommendation . I'm really not sure how the politics involved work..

I am very interested in this designation, but I am severely worried about my GPA and the lack of positions I am hearing about.

Thanks for any comments!

Ed Frederick

 

[geerst]

Hello Fast Eddie,

You are correct, your GPA is low. Cryptology selections lean toward those with engineering, math, physics, computer science type degrees. The reason is not for number theory, but due to the complex equipment the enlisted folks use to collect intel. As their division officer, you will need to know thoroughly the gear they use and break.

Cryptology is still open this year, needing 14 more bubbas as of 2 days ago. Since you did well on your SAT, you should be able to score high on the officer aptitude exam, ASTB. Imperative you do very well, which will effectively raise your GPA. Get strong letters of recommendation from Navy officers, but only from folks that can write personally about your attributes and accomplishments. In your officer application, stress your technical capabilites, knowledge, and experience, point out that your college grades were best in the hard classes (if they were), etc. Paint the picture that the low GPA is not indicative of your potential. Take the ASTB and submit your kit. Good luck.

LCDR Geers

 

[Fast Eddie]

LCDR Geers,

If I may ask a follow up question.. Would my chances be improved if I chose to go the NUPOC route?

The Navy Captain I'm friends with is a nuclear trained submarine guy, and I hear there is a decent demand for nuke officers..

 

[geerst]

Fast Eddie,

Slim chance at getting nuclear officer due to the GPA. ASTB not required for nuke, so no other chance to prove your potential. If your grades in calculus and calculus-based physics were "As," then you might ask your recruiter to submit your transcripts to the Region NTO for review. Another idea for you. Get accepted to an engineering master's program, due very well (3.6-7+) your first semester, then apply for NUPOC to 1) get selected as a nuclear officer; 2) get paid great money (about $3000/month in Seattle, directly into your bank account) to go back to school. Good luck.

LCDR Geers

 

[kabttu]

Originally posted by geerst
Fast Eddie,

Slim chance at getting nuclear officer due to the GPA. ASTB not required for nuke, so no other chance to prove your potential. If your grades in calculus and calculus-based physics were "As," then you might ask your recruiter to submit your transcripts to the Region NTO for review. Another idea for you. Get accepted to an engineering master's program, due very well (3.6-7+) your first semester, then apply for NUPOC to 1) get selected as a nuclear officer; 2) get paid great money (about $3000/month in Seattle, directly into your bank account) to go back to school. Good luck.

LCDR Geers

LCDR Geers,

I'm in the same boat as Fast Eddie, I will graduate with a low GPA. However I do plan on going to grad school to get a Masters in Computer Science. Will the Navy only pay for grad school if you're going to become a Nuke Officer? I'm interested in Cryptology. Thanks!

Kevin

 

[geerst]

Kevin,

The Navy has two collegiate programs for graduate school: NUPOC for nuclear officer; CEC for Civil Engineers (limited, case-by-case). These grad programs are just like the undergrad programs of BDCP/NUPOC. Other grad programs similar are in the medical service corps.

If you want Crypto and a grad degree, the Navy loves to send its officers to graduate school in lieu of a shore-duty assignment; that is, after you have been commissioned and served your first sea tour.

LCDR Geers

 

[kabttu]

LCDR Geers,

Thanks for the info. I definitely plan on getting another Masters or a PhD once I'm in the Navy, it's the getting in I'm worried about, really screwed myself my first couple years, didn't really have a goal I guess. Now that I've decided that I want to join the Navy, allows me to really focus on things since I feel like I have a goal and can work towards something, but I've done irreparable harm to my GPA so I feel that going to grad school is the only way I stand a chance. Once I've started grad school, how soon can I apply for Crypto and OCS? I would like to do it early so I don't have a lot of downtime between graduation and going to OCS and so I'm not caught up in waiting for the next fiscal year sort of thing. Thanks again!

Kevin

 

[geerst]

Kevin,

I would apply as soon as you get your first semester's grade in hand from the grad school. That gives you 1-1/2 years to let the wheels grind at CNRC for the selection and allows you to pick a time-appropriate OCS start date.

LCDR Geers

 

[kabttu]

LCDR Geers,

Thanks for all your info! That's exactly what I was planning on doing. Another quick question if you don't mind. I live about an 1.5 hours away from the nearest officer recruiter, is it possible for a local enlisted recruiter to procter the ASTB? Only reason I ask is that it would be hard for me to get to the officer recruiter right now with school and work. Thanks!

Kevin

 

[geerst]

Kabttu,

Ask your officer recruiter if they have established a testing relationship with an enlisted recruiter. I have for applicants in Alaska.

LCDR Geers

 

[ghost_ttu]

LCDR Geers:

I'm curious if you have any insight on what CNRC plans to do in the May timeframe. The recruiter here always made emphasis on the 01 May, and 01 Oct dates for sending applications. I can understand the Oct. date due to fiscal. Just wondering if you have heard anything more as far as SNA needs, they have been dried up, will it continue that way through the fiscal?

Eliminate distractions, focus on your goals and visualize what you hope to accomplish.

 

[geerst]

Ghost_ttu,

I have heard nothing referring to 01 May. 01 Oct, as you know, is the new FY. Revised FY-02 goals will be out of CNRC in a week or two. What that means: CNRC receives the national goal for each officer community from Big Navy and promulgates goals per district (like me in Seattle). For pilot, my goal for FY-02 was 2 (actually, either pilot or NFO counted). Pilot is full for the year and NFO is 8 off as of yesterday. I expect the goal revision to state all aviation is full/closed, and the districts that have not found their applicants for aviation will no longer be goaled with any for the remainder of this fiscal year. If and when that happens, recruiters will be more focused on finding applicants for the remaining "open" officer communities than for closed ones. Again, if this happens, I expect recruiters will start ramping up on aviation recruiting come August and September, to get a start on FY-03. This is my opinion, hope it helps.

LCDR Geers

 

[ghost_ttu]

Thank you.

Eliminate distractions, focus on your goals and visualize what you hope to accomplish.

 

[tremontana]

LCDR Geers,

My son is a sophomore at Harvard, majoring in physics and chemistry. Having taken a year and one third of BC Calculus and several physics courses in high school, he has been able to take some fairly advanced math and physics at Harvard, even though he is only in his second year. I think his GPA is around 3.5. He has been strongly encouraged by the recruiter at MIT to pursue the NUPOC program. While still in high school, he considered the Naval Academy and has occasionally talked about the Special Operations. He equivocated on ROTC but now he is feeling that maybe NUPOC would be a rewarding career choice. Would you please comment on three specific things? If he makes the Navy a career, how does the NUPOC program affect his chances, way down the road, of making the jump from O-6 to general grade? If he chooses not to make the Navy a career, how will the business scientific community receive him when he completes his active duty obligation? And finally, can he pursue advanced degrees while on active duty and, if so, how does he do that if he is primarily assigned sea duty?

Thanks in advance,

George

 

[kabttu]

tremontana-

I believe that LCDR Geers no longer posts on this forum, he was told from up above that it wasn't a good idea. However, I'm sure there are many other people who might be able to answer your questions. I've looked into the NUPOC program for myself once I'm in grad school. Still need to get the required maths and physics though. Check this link out, has some good info on the NUPOC program and what they do once They've been through OCS and everything.

http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/noru/orojt/generalofficer.htm#15