If one doesn’t want to suffer the consequences they need to not commit the crime.
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Mast, NJP, and The Trouble Troops Can Get In...
- Thread starter FlyinSpy
- Start date
Clux4
Banned
True. My bleeding heart goes to the little child that knows nothing about this.Kids like the one below. The one that will most likely get affected by reduced family income. The irresponsible 19 year old farther or mother gets no love from me.
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MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Have your heart bleed all you want.
Having one guy get "spared" from RIR/ 1/2 pay because of dependents is not fucking even close to fair. Where do the regs state that families = less punishment?
This is just like when single guys have to take the slack when married guys are always doing shit, and then the wives club/COW just go "well it's not like he has a family" like he's not of the same status as them.
You chose (perhaps a bad drunken choice, but a choice no less) to have a family and subject them to the UCMJ and the Military indirectly.
It should not give sailors with dependents "special status" in discipline and liberty over single sailors.
If you were a Platoon Commander, would you make only your single guys kick down doors or run point? I should hope not.
Having one guy get "spared" from RIR/ 1/2 pay because of dependents is not fucking even close to fair. Where do the regs state that families = less punishment?
This is just like when single guys have to take the slack when married guys are always doing shit, and then the wives club/COW just go "well it's not like he has a family" like he's not of the same status as them.
You chose (perhaps a bad drunken choice, but a choice no less) to have a family and subject them to the UCMJ and the Military indirectly.
It should not give sailors with dependents "special status" in discipline and liberty over single sailors.
If you were a Platoon Commander, would you make only your single guys kick down doors or run point? I should hope not.
magnetfreezer
Well-Known Member
'2'
Had an E-8 with 4 kids who popped for coke 2 months from retirement. Punishment was a short confinement and I believe immediate ADSEP. At one of the hearings he begged to be sent to Leavenworth, etc etc if it meant his family could keep their health/other retired benefits. Nobody could do anything at that point since he brought it on himself.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
It's not always just a family issue.
Many times the chain of command asks to suspend or eliminate certain monetary punishments for Marines who are in financial difficulty. I have to remind them that the last guy who did such and such got the max. Therefore this guy gets the max, too.
Why should one guy get punished more for being somewhat responsible with his money?
There are mitigating factors of course. Being an hour late for formation (perhaps several times) is different than being UA for 2 weeks.
It's not about the individual. It's about the institution and maintaining good order and discipline.
Often times this will mean serious financial difficulty for the Marine involved. The command will end up dealing with that as well. That's just the way it goes. That's why it's a punishment....because it sucks. It's also painful for the person giving the punishment sometimes. Nobody wants to be the dick that took LCpl Timmy's money when he has a kid at home that may not get a Christmas present as a result.
You have to be fair, keep the institution in mind, and let the Marine be held accountable for his actions.
It seems like with this generation, it may be the first time for many of them that they ever truly felt the repercussions for their actions.
Many times the chain of command asks to suspend or eliminate certain monetary punishments for Marines who are in financial difficulty. I have to remind them that the last guy who did such and such got the max. Therefore this guy gets the max, too.
Why should one guy get punished more for being somewhat responsible with his money?
There are mitigating factors of course. Being an hour late for formation (perhaps several times) is different than being UA for 2 weeks.
It's not about the individual. It's about the institution and maintaining good order and discipline.
Often times this will mean serious financial difficulty for the Marine involved. The command will end up dealing with that as well. That's just the way it goes. That's why it's a punishment....because it sucks. It's also painful for the person giving the punishment sometimes. Nobody wants to be the dick that took LCpl Timmy's money when he has a kid at home that may not get a Christmas present as a result.
You have to be fair, keep the institution in mind, and let the Marine be held accountable for his actions.
It seems like with this generation, it may be the first time for many of them that they ever truly felt the repercussions for their actions.
Clux4
Banned
I mentioned it previously. I will not give out two separate punishment for two individuals equally at fault. If I will not give "A" a reduction in pay because I am thinking about his family, I also will not give "B" a reduction in pay whatever his family situation may be.
I also do not believe Commanders should have blanket policies either. The Commander by virtue of his position should use his discretion.
Off course, I will not give an E-8 smoking dope the same punishment as an E-1/E-2. I expect the E-8 to know a few things by now.
Kicking down doors and taking point is something else altogether. You are mixing issues. The issue here is punishment for crimes committed. Putting a single guy in front of the stack has nothing to do with crime/punishment. That is an operational issue and such considerations should not drive it. Everyone shares the responsibility of taking point and may God help us all.
It is understandable that you have grievances against the WIFE Club. I also do. It is one thing to volunteer my time, it is another to want to shove me into something because I am single.
Taking care of your job is a big part of taking care of your family and it is not the Skipper's responsibility. Families of dumb-asses are going to suffer more than families of responsible adults. By awarding consistent punishments, the skipper is being fair. It is the dumb-ass that earned the punishment who is harming his family.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Having seen it from all sides, single, married and divorced, it really pisses me off.
I stood up for the single guys/childless guys a couple times when the knives club was having their coven meeting at my house, and that was consistently the attitude I got..
I had a couple wives get on my ass about their husbands missing soccer games, and stuff like that. Because I treated a "hey I want to go to a little league game" (when they are 2-3 times a week, not like it's the playoffs, kids first/last game, etc) like a single JO saying "hey can I not be scheduled Thursday night because I can get Jags tickets".
The wives club heirarchy of who is important:
Guys with kids under 5
Husbands of pregnant Women
Guys with kids
large gap
Husbands without kids
Guys with fiancees that go to wives club events
HUUUGE gap
Single guys
Guys with wives who refuse to deal with wives club.
Infinite chasm-
Divorced guys who have NO interest in remarrying, because they fear we will spread our "disease" to their husbands.
I stood up for the single guys/childless guys a couple times when the knives club was having their coven meeting at my house, and that was consistently the attitude I got..
I had a couple wives get on my ass about their husbands missing soccer games, and stuff like that. Because I treated a "hey I want to go to a little league game" (when they are 2-3 times a week, not like it's the playoffs, kids first/last game, etc) like a single JO saying "hey can I not be scheduled Thursday night because I can get Jags tickets".
The wives club heirarchy of who is important:
Guys with kids under 5
Husbands of pregnant Women
Guys with kids
large gap
Husbands without kids
Guys with fiancees that go to wives club events
HUUUGE gap
Single guys
Guys with wives who refuse to deal with wives club.
Infinite chasm-
Divorced guys who have NO interest in remarrying, because they fear we will spread our "disease" to their husbands.
I've got a devil woman. We have no curtain climbers and don't plan on it for a while. She also has a kickass job, which makes us DINKs. Don't expect to be on the up and up with the knives club if you are in a DINK marriage.
We have our friends in the squadron/area, the wives club can go to hell as far as the shedevil and I are concerned.
You should caveat that with how things were in your command, not the entire Navy. Both wives clubs in my two squadrons were never that bad and were welcoming to all O's as a group, single and divorced included. Sure there were a few morons but they didn't detract from the whole group, especially when the CO and XO's wives were generally pretty cool.
Just like a real squadron everything can be different from command to command, the whole Navy is not like your HSL squadron.
Could you imagine? The horror....
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
No, but having been in a few squadrons over the years, and having seen how it works, while each squadron may be different (and they are) I have seen a consistent attitude amongst the clubs. It's just a question of how much influence they have in the real command, and what the attitude of the higherups in the wives club (COW/XOW, President, VP) are WRT Single Guys/DINKs/MilSpouses/etc.
1) Who gives a fuck about the wives' club? Last I checked, they don't write the schedule.
2) What Flash said.
3) In most situations I've seen with the squadron/TSCs, the single guys volunteer for more dets (join the Navy, see the world!) and the married guys/fathers don't bitch when they get assigned and so everything works itself out.
4) WRT to what MB said, your wives' club had real influence in the command? Sounds like the problem lies not in the spouses (who are obviously going to look out for their own), but in the leadership whose balls were back home marinating in a pickle jar.
2) What Flash said.
3) In most situations I've seen with the squadron/TSCs, the single guys volunteer for more dets (join the Navy, see the world!) and the married guys/fathers don't bitch when they get assigned and so everything works itself out.
4) WRT to what MB said, your wives' club had real influence in the command? Sounds like the problem lies not in the spouses (who are obviously going to look out for their own), but in the leadership whose balls were back home marinating in a pickle jar.