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Marine Jet Fleet Health

Rugby_Guy

Livin on a Prayer
pilot
I used to be an F18 airframer and when I left the community, it wasn't really that healthy. Jets being sent off for center barrel replacements, squadrons trading jets for deployments, and very little flight hours getting done.

I am in Primary and starting to think about my options. I don't know anything about the Harriers health or what kind of hours new pilots could expect there, and the F35 is kind of a pipe dream, so I'm not considering that for now.

My question is, is this not the right time to go Jets? Assuming I get Harriers or Hornets, would I be able to get the flight time necessary to complete the quals I'd need? When I got my air contract, I just assumed I would go jets. Now I'm not so sure that would be the best option, given the budget and all.

Disclaimer: I don't care about how many actual flight hours I get, I'm not thinking of building time for airlines. But would I get enough hours to get the appropriate quals done before going on a B-billet? I would hate to go jets, not have the chance to complete level-X, go do a B-billet and not be able to get back because "we don't need a senior Capt who isn't level-X already".
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Best answer...it depends. Depends on what squadron you go to, where they are in their work up cycle, and what quals your squadron believes you are ready/willing/able to receive while you're there.

Bottom line...I wouldn't let what you're asking be the determining factor for your selection. You can't control, much less predict, this type of thing. You wanna fly gray jets...go fly gray jets. The rest will work itself out in time.

My opinion, I'd rather fly Hornets and look back on it knowing I did what I wanted rather than fly something else and always wonder what flying Hornets would've been like.

FWIW, the Navy Hornet fleet isn't in much better shape. I fly Lot 13 APG-65...it's a challenge but you'll appreciate that -35 (or Super) all that much more when you make it there.
 
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sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
His concern about not making SFWT syllabus qualifications is valid though. I've been out of the fleet for a few years, but I've been hearing horror-stories from the fleet about guys not having the time to make level 3, let alone level 4. I'm not sure how much of that is on the individual SFWT candidate and how much is on the squadron, but either way it sounds like some squadrons are in the hurt locker for jets and/or OPTAR lately...
 

pourts

former Marine F/A-18 pilot & FAC, current MBA stud
pilot
The jet situation is horrible. The situation at the depot (FRC) is basically untenable. The community is burning the candle at both ends, but nobody has the balls to speak up and say "we can't support that" or "we can support that new requirement, but expect it to lead to 1 extra aircrew fatality per year." If that risk is acceptable, then so be it.

The number of mechanical failures right now is very scary. They pour the kool-ade down your throat during flight school and Safety School that the biggest issue is human error. "Human error causes the majority of mishaps" or something like that. In today's Hornet community, mechanical failures are becoming more and more commonplace. As an ASO who reads all of the SIRs and HAZREPs every day it is kind of demoralizing.

Right now, NAVAIR has zero money for, and gives ZERO shits about legacy Hornets. Expect duct tape and chewing gum as the solutions until the aircraft gets sundowned. Naval Aviation Enterprise is pulling their hair out trying to keep the ship afloat.

That said, there are hours to make quals-- especially if you are one of the "chosen ones." If you were trying to build hours for an airlines app, then I would say get as far away from the Hornet community as you can. But if all you care about is getting quals and a second tour, then I wouldn't sweat it too bad. Also, the rest of the applicant pool will have faced similar difficulties on the whole. Right now, anyone with a pulse and a 7523 MOS is going to the fleet. Even if you are Major with no quals who only did 1 fleet tour and hasn't flown in 4 years. That situation will probably be different in 2 or 3 years.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
If you were trying to build hours for an airlines app, then I would say get as far away from the Hornet community as you can. But if all you care about is getting quals and a second tour, then I wouldn't sweat it too bad. Also, the rest of the applicant pool will have faced similar difficulties on the whole. Right now, anyone with a pulse and a 7523 MOS is going to the fleet. Even if you are Major with no quals who only did 1 fleet tour and hasn't flown in 4 years. That situation will probably be different in 2 or 3 years.

The good news is that the majors are directly hiring Marine jet guys with 400 grey jet hours and a VT tour B billet, so even if you're looking to build airline hours, you're not shooting yourself in the foot too badly if you're just making 100hrs a year mins in the hornet or harrier communities.

To the OP. Go where you think you'll enjoy the flying. All the ground job/BS will be in any community.
 

texags

Active Member
pilot
I got 250 hours my first year in the fleet flying Harriers, and this was very recently. It varies a lot based on what deployments you go on and the overall squadron health. I got pretty lucky; 250 hours/year flying tac air is pretty rare these days.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
I got 250 hours my first year in the fleet flying Harriers, and this was very recently. It varies a lot based on what deployments you go on and the overall squadron health. I got pretty lucky; 250 hours/year flying tac air is pretty rare these days.
223?
 

kteigenw

New Member
Can anyone comment on the depressingly low monthly flight hours being said in the news? Something like 4 hours a month?
Is it going to get better for guys like me and the OP who won't hit a fleet squadron for 3-4 years?
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Can anyone comment on the depressingly low monthly flight hours being said in the news? Something like 4 hours a month?
Is it going to get better for guys like me and the OP who won't hit a fleet squadron for 3-4 years?

If we could predict the future, none of us would be wasting our time on the internets.
 

pourts

former Marine F/A-18 pilot & FAC, current MBA stud
pilot
Can anyone comment on the depressingly low monthly flight hours being said in the news? Something like 4 hours a month?
Is it going to get better for guys like me and the OP who won't hit a fleet squadron for 3-4 years?

First of all, averages lie. One guy gets 20 hours because he's a div lead NSI and hes on the schedule every day and goes on the road. Another guy gets 2 hours that month then goes TAD to legal school. They average out to 11 hours that month, but the 11 doesn't accurately describe the population. This is called barbelling. Its what Goldman Sachs used to turn shit into AAA rated securities, and its what happens when you talk about average flight hours for a squadron.

That said, everyone is hurting for flight hours right now. The stuff you see on the news is true. It really is that bad. The good thing is, the administrative requirements have ballooned, so you have something to occupy all your free time when you aren't flying.
 

kmac

Coffee Drinker
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Can anyone comment on the depressingly low monthly flight hours being said in the news? Something like 4 hours a month?
Is it going to get better for guys like me and the OP who won't hit a fleet squadron for 3-4 years?

4 hours a month seems surprisingly low, considering it's an average. On the Navy side, we want every squadron to average a decent amount above 11 hours. No pilot who flies consistently should be getting less than that. Where was 4 hours mentioned specifically? The Fox News video or elsewhere?
 

whitesoxnation

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
4 hours a month seems surprisingly low, considering it's an average. On the Navy side, we want every squadron to average a decent amount above 11 hours. No pilot who flies consistently should be getting less than that. Where was 4 hours mentioned specifically? The Fox News video or elsewhere?

In the Fox News video one of the skippers mentioned their average time in the last 30 was 4 hours.
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
First of all, averages lie. One guy gets 20 hours because he's a div lead NSI and hes on the schedule every day and goes on the road. Another guy gets 2 hours that month then goes TAD to legal school. They average out to 11 hours that month, but the 11 doesn't accurately describe the population. This is called barbelling. Its what Goldman Sachs used to turn shit into AAA rated securities, and its what happens when you talk about average flight hours for a squadron.

That said, everyone is hurting for flight hours right now. The stuff you see on the news is true. It really is that bad. The good thing is, the administrative requirements have ballooned, so you have something to occupy all your free time when you aren't flying.

Also varies by workup/deployment cycle, as well as type of command and allocated funding. I've seen it both ways (in terms of flight hours), all during this period of hard times.
 
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