Not all units are created equal and I would say there are pockets of goodness surrounded by pockets of nothing. The key is having a Reserve unit that is actively engaged with their supported, active duty command, which is rare.
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MAJOR IRR Policy Change...
- Thread starter Sam I am
- Start date
lostSeaBee
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I have been in contact with my Navy Officer Recruiter and he is not able to direct me on how to transfer from the IRR-ASP to the IRR-VTU. He gave me a contact to the Navy Recruiting Command in Transition Assistance Program, but I don't think that is going to get me there. I gave him the PERS-93 and MILPERSMAN information, but he seems clueless. Who should I have him contact at the Navy Recruiting Command to get some guidance?
lostSeaBee
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I describe my time in the SELRES as a part time job with full time responsibilities. It was very difficult and time consuming. My mobilization was difficult as well, I only had one for 10 months, but I still think the daily requirements of the SELRES were more difficult.
lostSeaBee
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My area recruiter put me in touch with someone who knows how to transfer members from the IRR-ASP to the IRR-VTU, it was NCC (AW/SW) Oestereicher. He was very helpful and respectful. He also gave me the POC's for Officers in each region:
vxc961
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Nittany, I'm not playing "gotcha!" it's just that I enjoy a good debate, especially when people obey the rules of debate. I've been trying to say that we need to make sure we're comparing apples to apples. When you say that some SELRES units aren't effective, but others are, I agree...sort of. If you're talking about operational support to the AC, I agree 100%. If you're talking about the actual reserve part, like the Navy asking a unit of like 16 guys to have two O's, two senior Es, and 2 junior Es as facilitators for Full Spead Ahead (with only one senior E, in my case), then I will go ahead and say that despite the great AC stuff my unit supports, the reserves suck us down. Plus, I hate to admit it, but I think since 2001 the purpose of SELRES hasn't been operational support to AC, but "gap filler." I spent 30 seconds looking for VADM Braun's statement and couldn't find it, but I'm fairly confident she actually said the job of a reservist is to be MOB ready, and that she could train a MOB ready reservist to do any job. If she didn't say something like that, I'll eat my words, but I think that the past 16 years have shown that sentiment to be true.
I understand that when I say "the IRR has value," SELRES folks might feel threatened. Of the 48k IRR dudes, I'll concede that probably 47k are worthless, don't care, don't participate, and can't MOB. OK, those guys cost ZERO. Of the remaining 1,000 doing courses or otherwise earning points, I think 90% could be MOB'd (can pass a PRT, MED/Dental), but I'll say it's just 50%. Even then, those IRR dudes aren't earning money for their retirement points, they're not on Tricare Reserve Select, they're not earning time to transfer their GI Bill...they're less compensated than their SELRES counterparts. I understand that when people think about IRR guys earning a retirement for doing correspondence courses it ruffles feathers, but I think when you drill down on it, it doesn't cost much at all. $0.50/pt once the guy hits 60 doesn't seem bad. I think in the US the average male life expectancy is 78, so I'll give you 80. 20 years, of $25/month(50pts/yr in the IRR), for an O-4/5 who will step up (or be forced to step up) in case of war with China, Russia, Korea, or whoever else Congress deems worthy doesn't seem like a bad investment to me. Feel free to convince me otherwise though.
After you've argued that the IRR-ASP isn't fiscally responsible, without ever offering how much you think the IRR might cost (balls in your court with cost--I understand there are variables, but let's just pick something so we can have an intelligent discussion), I submit that to me it's more fiscally irresponsible to pay a guy $1,000 every month to wait in line. Oh, and on his off hours he's probably harassing his junior E's to complete BRS training (which is valuable, but when they're harassed they'll just pencil whip), trying to decipher a NOSC hit-list which is 50% accurate (aka, worst than useless...), resubmitting forms that you've already submitted, trying to get a guy paid who's done multiple sets of orders and realizing that that BLOWS THE NOSCs MIND (!) and have them tell you that that multiple vouchers at once *really* slows down the process. I honestly don't understand who benefits, when the NOSC training officer calls me (her time and my time) to explain that my unit as 90% on BRS training and FSA training. The Sailors who haven't completed training have either literally just landed in the unit, or were placed there IAP (after we conducted the training!) and are now gone. So I can waste my time tracking them down on my drill weekend, or maybe even put in for RMPs to do it. Their new units are probably facing the same problem and doing the same thing, and each NOSC Training O is getting sweated by the XO, who is being sweated by the NOSC CO, all at what I think is a very fair hourly wage. Why? And then, there's the IRR guy. He gets his points at zero cost to the Navy, has lower blood-pressure, more time with his family, and isn't sneaking away during the workday to call the NOSC, his Sailors, or his OSO, and if he's getting points, is at least somewhat viable for serving more actively in the future; you have to at least concede that he won't "years-commissioned-service" out. Which do you think is more efficient? Operational support to the AC is great, but it doesn't seem like we're mobilizing EPU guys to their AC counterparts; it seems like we're MOB-ing guys, sending them to Ft Jackson to learn how to shoot a rifle, and then sending them where the gaps are.
"Nittany, I feel like you're saying the IRR is worthless, but SELRES units are totally worth it"(in the AA voice)...unless they're not. If an IRR guy is MOB ready and supporting through JPME, BGO, funerals/whatever, it's a one-of situation; If SELRES units are not up to snuff, it's a failure of leadership, or we should think about changing things to the way they were, but there's nothing wrong with paying a giant NYC OSU unit to do nothing. I agree that it's rewarding to train for a good mission, support the active side, and MOB with that mission, but I don't think that's the way we're using the majority of SELRES.
I understand that when I say "the IRR has value," SELRES folks might feel threatened. Of the 48k IRR dudes, I'll concede that probably 47k are worthless, don't care, don't participate, and can't MOB. OK, those guys cost ZERO. Of the remaining 1,000 doing courses or otherwise earning points, I think 90% could be MOB'd (can pass a PRT, MED/Dental), but I'll say it's just 50%. Even then, those IRR dudes aren't earning money for their retirement points, they're not on Tricare Reserve Select, they're not earning time to transfer their GI Bill...they're less compensated than their SELRES counterparts. I understand that when people think about IRR guys earning a retirement for doing correspondence courses it ruffles feathers, but I think when you drill down on it, it doesn't cost much at all. $0.50/pt once the guy hits 60 doesn't seem bad. I think in the US the average male life expectancy is 78, so I'll give you 80. 20 years, of $25/month(50pts/yr in the IRR), for an O-4/5 who will step up (or be forced to step up) in case of war with China, Russia, Korea, or whoever else Congress deems worthy doesn't seem like a bad investment to me. Feel free to convince me otherwise though.
After you've argued that the IRR-ASP isn't fiscally responsible, without ever offering how much you think the IRR might cost (balls in your court with cost--I understand there are variables, but let's just pick something so we can have an intelligent discussion), I submit that to me it's more fiscally irresponsible to pay a guy $1,000 every month to wait in line. Oh, and on his off hours he's probably harassing his junior E's to complete BRS training (which is valuable, but when they're harassed they'll just pencil whip), trying to decipher a NOSC hit-list which is 50% accurate (aka, worst than useless...), resubmitting forms that you've already submitted, trying to get a guy paid who's done multiple sets of orders and realizing that that BLOWS THE NOSCs MIND (!) and have them tell you that that multiple vouchers at once *really* slows down the process. I honestly don't understand who benefits, when the NOSC training officer calls me (her time and my time) to explain that my unit as 90% on BRS training and FSA training. The Sailors who haven't completed training have either literally just landed in the unit, or were placed there IAP (after we conducted the training!) and are now gone. So I can waste my time tracking them down on my drill weekend, or maybe even put in for RMPs to do it. Their new units are probably facing the same problem and doing the same thing, and each NOSC Training O is getting sweated by the XO, who is being sweated by the NOSC CO, all at what I think is a very fair hourly wage. Why? And then, there's the IRR guy. He gets his points at zero cost to the Navy, has lower blood-pressure, more time with his family, and isn't sneaking away during the workday to call the NOSC, his Sailors, or his OSO, and if he's getting points, is at least somewhat viable for serving more actively in the future; you have to at least concede that he won't "years-commissioned-service" out. Which do you think is more efficient? Operational support to the AC is great, but it doesn't seem like we're mobilizing EPU guys to their AC counterparts; it seems like we're MOB-ing guys, sending them to Ft Jackson to learn how to shoot a rifle, and then sending them where the gaps are.
"Nittany, I feel like you're saying the IRR is worthless, but SELRES units are totally worth it"(in the AA voice)...unless they're not. If an IRR guy is MOB ready and supporting through JPME, BGO, funerals/whatever, it's a one-of situation; If SELRES units are not up to snuff, it's a failure of leadership, or we should think about changing things to the way they were, but there's nothing wrong with paying a giant NYC OSU unit to do nothing. I agree that it's rewarding to train for a good mission, support the active side, and MOB with that mission, but I don't think that's the way we're using the majority of SELRES.
If an IRR naval officer wanted to go SELRES, would he or she would have to work with a NAVET recruiter and submit a package to a DIRCOM selection board, such as the CEC DCO board?
How did you get to 90% already? That's way above the average for the reserves! BZ!!
(Half joking, half not...)
lostSeaBee
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The NCC that I talked to said that they are handling anyone going from the IRR-ASP to the IRR-VTU or SELRES.
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
No, they don’t go to a DIRCOM board since they’re already commissioned.
lostSeaBee
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I'm working on three different paths to stay in the reserves:
1. Transfefring from the IRR-ASP to the IRR-VTU. Going very slowly. I talked to my TAP Coordinator today. I'll report more when it is available.
2. Transferring to the Air National Guard. I'm working with an officer recruiter and I have an interview with a unit this weekend.
3. I'm applying to the Blue and Gold Officer program. I sent in my application and I am waiting for approval.
We'll see which path works out the best.
1. Transfefring from the IRR-ASP to the IRR-VTU. Going very slowly. I talked to my TAP Coordinator today. I'll report more when it is available.
2. Transferring to the Air National Guard. I'm working with an officer recruiter and I have an interview with a unit this weekend.
3. I'm applying to the Blue and Gold Officer program. I sent in my application and I am waiting for approval.
We'll see which path works out the best.
lostSeaBee
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I'm getting closer and more information on transferring from the IRR-ASP to the IRR-VTU. Here is the "Blueprint" form required for re-affiliating.
lostSeaBee
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Here is more information from the IRR Counselor for members with less than 16 years: I asked, "Will IRR-ASP members with less than 16 years as of 30 September 2017 receive 15 membership points (GRAT) before being placed in the Standby Reserve-Inactive (USNR-S2) status if their anniversary year ends after 30 September 2017?" The response was "There is no guarantee that the gratuity points will come before placement in the S2 area. Although, placing members in S2 can take up to 12 months . It just depends upon your anniversary month which is normally your commissioning month. Please note FY2017 points have been added to most accounts with anniversary months of Jan-March. You are welcome to check back on this matter June 2018."
What is your designator and rank? you will need to check with appropriate PERS department for manning levels. PM for more info.
lostSeaBee
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I'm a 5105 (Civil Engineer Corps) and LCDR. I'll send you a PM.
lostSeaBee
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I'm limping my way closer to transferring from the IRR-ASP to the IRR-VTU. Here's what I learned: The Officer Recruiter in my zone was not familiar with the transfer process, no big surprise.
You fill out the form quoted here and send it to them.
You also need to send them your DD-214, last three FITREPs and a resume. I sent my statement of service as well, but I don't think it was helpful. To transfer files securely we used
https://safe.amrdec.army.mil/safe/Default.aspx.
The Officer Recruiter then checks with PERS to see if there is something wrong with you.
I think once PERS says that you are clean, the Officer Recruiter then sets up an appointment with MEPS or military treatment facilities (MTF) search at https://www.tricare.mil/mtf.aspx.
Since the MEPS process is long and cumbersome, they recommend using a MTF.
I'm not there yet, and we'll see what else I need to do.