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Logging T-34 time

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
@HAL Pilot nailed it above. As far as documented experience in ratings attainment, part 61 PIC is what the FAA is looking for. The Show only cares about time you were *acting* as PIC.

Ironically in the commercial helo world, it’s the opposite - employers are strictly concerned with how much stick wiggling time you have.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Which brings me to a question that I admittedly haven't researched yet, but figured I'd ask here.

If rated in category and class, but NOT current, when I go flying with a CFI, what do I log the stick-wiggling time as? In previous research, I thought I read that it would not be DUAL RECEIVED since I'm rated. So under Part 61, is it just total time but no PIC time? (Assume single-piloted aircraft)
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
Which brings me to a question that I admittedly haven't researched yet, but figured I'd ask here.

If rated in category and class, but NOT current, when I go flying with a CFI, what do I log the stick-wiggling time as? In previous research, I thought I read that it would not be DUAL RECEIVED since I'm rated. So under Part 61, is it just total time but no PIC time? (Assume single-piloted aircraft)
Log dual received as long as the CFI signs your entry (and no reason not to)

Log PIC

“Currency” only applies to your ability to carry pax.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
But if I have someone else in the aircraft, that person is either an instructor or a pax if I'm logging PIC (Part 61) no? Logging DR solves that, and personally I'm fine with logging PIC under Part 1 (as you said, the industry is fine with that), but I swear I've read something somewhere that if you're already rated, you don't log Dual Received.
 

sevenhelmet

Uh oh...
pilot
You can log dual received and PIC time if you are receiving instruction in an aircraft you are also rated to fly. Currency is not a factor (for example, on a bi-annual flight review, you can log both, even if you haven't flown the aircraft in >90 days). If you aren't rated in the aircraft, then it's only dual received, the IP logs dual given and PIC.
 
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Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
You can log dual received and PIC time if you are receiving instruction in an aircraft you are also rated to fly. Currency is not a factor (for example, on a bi-annual flight review, you can log both, even if you haven't flown the aircraft in >90 days). If you aren't rated in the aircraft, then it's only dual received, the IP logs dual given and PIC.
Ahh, okay, that's the part I was missing. Thanks!
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
You can log dual received and PIC time if you are receiving instruction in an aircraft you are also rated to fly. Currency is not a factor (for example, on a bi-annual flight review, you can log both, even if you haven't flown the aircraft in >90 days). If you aren't rated in the aircraft, then it's only dual received, the IP logs dual given and PIC.
You are correct sir!
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Revisiting the PIC in training subject again now that I'm trying to put new hire time in my logbook. First, I'm asking the administratively "correct" way, and then I'll address what it appears the company cares (or doesn't care) about.

For the "by the book" question: in my flight summaries, it only specifies total time and the flavor of that time (D, N, H, NVG). Given it's the only flight record I have (and everything is based off of a Hobbes that ONLY records flight time and NOT battery time), do I just log all of this as PIC time? In reality, most of it was, but there was obviously some demos and some UA training.

Practically speaking, it appears I just use these numbers to plug into my annual company insurance form, which asks for PIC time, so I guess I just count all of this as PIC for posterity. I'm not able to see what the IP logged for himself, only my total time for each flight.

Just curious to see others thoughts.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
Revisiting the PIC in training subject again now that I'm trying to put new hire time in my logbook. First, I'm asking the administratively "correct" way, and then I'll address what it appears the company cares (or doesn't care) about.

For the "by the book" question: in my flight summaries, it only specifies total time and the flavor of that time (D, N, H, NVG). Given it's the only flight record I have (and everything is based off of a Hobbes that ONLY records flight time and NOT battery time), do I just log all of this as PIC time? In reality, most of it was, but there was obviously some demos and some UA training.

Practically speaking, it appears I just use these numbers to plug into my annual company insurance form, which asks for PIC time, so I guess I just count all of this as PIC for posterity. I'm not able to see what the IP logged for himself, only my total time for each flight.

Just curious to see others thoughts.
for insurance purposes or for qualifying for ratings in Part 61 (IACRA) - yes - they want all your stick wiggling time plus anytime you are acting as PIC where you were say the pilot monitoring.
Going forward - why use hobbes?. You as the pilot have discretion on logging your own pilot time. Use Part 1 definition of "Flight Time" - if the wheels start to move with intent to fly, by god start the clock.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
for insurance purposes or for qualifying for ratings in Part 61 (IACRA) - yes - they want all your stick wiggling time plus anytime you are acting as PIC where you were say the pilot monitoring.
I suppose I could be using the time for Part 61, but mostly I'm logging for any potential future use. But as I said, not all that time was wiggling the sticks, but realistically, there's no way to break it out.

Another caveat to this whole thing is that I wasn't flying with any CFIs, so from a technical point of view, I'm not sure I can even log "Dual Received." I think.

Going forward - why use hobbes?. You as the pilot have discretion on logging your own pilot time. Use Part 1 definition of "Flight Time" - if the wheels start to move with intent to fly, by god start the clock.
Because I don't have wheels and I have to log the flight both in the aircraft logbook and the digital post-flight system based off of the Hobbes.
I'm leery of starting to build that big of a discrepancy between the aircraft logbook and my logbook (for any one flight, the time would be about double, so a .6 would come out around a 1.0-1.1 -ish). I guess it's something to think about.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
I suppose I could be using the time for Part 61, but mostly I'm logging for any potential future use. But as I said, not all that time was wiggling the sticks, but realistically, there's no way to break it out.

Another caveat to this whole thing is that I wasn't flying with any CFIs, so from a technical point of view, I'm not sure I can even log "Dual Received." I think.



Because I don't have wheels and I have to log the flight both in the aircraft logbook and the digital post-flight system based off of the Hobbes.
I'm leery of starting to build that big of a discrepancy between the aircraft logbook and my logbook (for any one flight, the time would be about double, so a .6 would come out around a 1.0-1.1 -ish). I guess it's something to think about.
Oh are you flying EMS or public service - something with skids? When I was flying the BK-117 did the same thing - there was a hobbes activated by a switch on the collective - when the collective was raised beyond a certain point (x degrees of travel) the Hobbes was activated...
 

HokiePilot

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Another caveat to this whole thing is that I wasn't flying with any CFIs, so from a technical point of view, I'm not sure I can even log "Dual Received." I think.
I'm pretty sure there is somewhere in the FARs that says that if a pilot is actually authorized to instruct in the aircraft it counts. Same rule applies to foreign instructors.

I just looked it up yep FAR 61.41
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
@Gatordev if you are in fact doing training for a 135 operation, you can log dual received. Also anytime at the controls is PIC since you are rated in category/class. None of my training airmen at PHI were CFI’s.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I'm pretty sure there is somewhere in the FARs that says that if a pilot is actually authorized to instruct in the aircraft it counts. Same rule applies to foreign instructors.

I just looked it up yep FAR 61.41
Yup. Wasn't suggesting it was incorrect, just hadn't checked if it specifically said to you could log "DR."

Also anytime at the controls is PIC since you are rated in category/class.
I understand that. But that doesn't answer the technical part of my earlier question. I get that practically, it doesn't really matter, apparently.
 
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