Logging Solo time

[et1nuke]

So here is the scenario, I'm getting my 8710 ready for my MEI checkride next Tuesday and I've decided that there are a lot of people out there with different opinions of what you should enter under "Solo" in section III. Record of Pilot Time on the 8710. I was taught all through my private days before I knew any better to think for myself that it was time while I was the sole occupant prior to my initial private checkride. But now my CFI signing me off for my MEI ride says my previous 8710's were wrong and my logbook column that was for PIC (incl solo) was a bad idea and I should keep a separate column for all time when you are the sole occupant. Because that's what FAR 61.51 says. Now I'm thinking I should maybe make the correction but now I'm reading some gouge on the FAA examiner I'm going with and one of the things he commented on a previous candidate was his "Solo" time logged. What are everyones thoughts on this or is it really too trivial to even worry about? I'm sure there are things I could spend my time doing before then that would serve me better than worrying.

 

[mts4602]

I'm not sure I really understand whats wrong. When I fly with my instructor my time goes under Dual. When I fly solo it goes under PIC. ???

Have you been recording both in the same PIC, even when you were being instructed?

 

[HAL Pilot]

First - it's really hard to understand what you are asking, but I think I got it.

You were right and your instructor is wrong.

Solo time is that time you are the sole occupant of the plane flying on a solo endorsement from your instructor. Once you get the license, it is no longer solo but is instead PIC.

Most pilots only have solo time prior to getting their private pilot license but you can long it again in another instance. Say you have your single engine license and are going for your multi. While there is no solo requirement for the multi add-on, you can fly a multi solo with the appropriate endorsement from your instructor. Since you are only licensed to fly single engines, the multi time would be solo instead of PIC.

I have an ATP, CFI, CFII & MEI with multiple type ratings. My last 8710 showed 26.5 hours of solo.

BTW, the hours section of the 8710 is only there for 2 reasons.
1. To document required aeronautical experience for the certificate or rating for which you are testing.
2. To provide historical documentation for you - if you should lose your logbook.

You are not even require to fill out that section if the rating you are testing for does not have a flight time requirement (i.e. type rating). I recommend it though for reason number 2 above.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I'm not sure I really understand whats wrong. When I fly with my instructor my time goes under Dual. When I fly solo it goes under PIC. ???

Have you been recording both in the same PIC, even when you were being instructed?

Most logbooks do not have a seperate solo column because after you get your PPL, you will probably never log solo time again. Solo time is normally logged in the PIC column and you just have to be smart enough to know what it is by the date of the flight.

 

[et1nuke]

HAL thanks for the feedback.
I think you are right on the ball I just have to find the exact words in the FAR now to help convince my CFI today when he reviews my 8710 and tries to tell me again to change my solo time.

I think it's pretty obvious too that it just makes sense that is what your solo time is because who is ever going to care if you are a rated pilot logging PIC whether or not you are alone in the plane or not...I mean PIC is PIC whether your friend is with you or not when you are ACTING PIC. Anyway thanks.

 

[White_Male]

I am not going to mess around with the solo time thing. But with the 8710, I am fairly sure that you only need to put the hours on there that make you elegible to go for the checkride. An example would be: if you have 100 helo hours, you would not need to include those on the form because they are N/A.

 

[HAL Pilot]

HAL thanks for the feedback.
I think you are right on the ball I just have to find the exact words in the FAR now to help convince my CFI today when he reviews my 8710 and tries to tell me again to change my solo time.

It's your 8710. Tell your CFI you are not going to put wrong info on it just because he's AFU. Then call the FSDO for support. They will tell your CFI he's AFU and that as a CFI he should know the right answer.

If your CFI is referring to:
(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.

Tell him that is says MAY log solo. MAY doesn't mean WILL. Tell him you've decided to do what 99.9% of the the pilots in the world do and will not be logging solo time.

From the back of the 8710:
III. RECORD OF PILOT TIME. The minimum pilot experience required by the appropriate regulation must be entered.

Again, point out there is no solo requirement for a multi add on so it is not required to enter any solo time on the 8710. Other than on the 8710, no one will ever ask for or care about your solo time. I would fill out every other time block as it is a good historical and legal record of your flight time if you lose a your logbook.

It's your 8710 and by signing the bottom front you are indicating that the information is accurate. Your CFI is not responsible for this. He is only responsible for the recommendation on the back side of the form.

 

[FelixTheGreat]

Solo time means "sole occupant of the aircraft". You can log solo time if you have your PPL and decide to fly from Colorado Springs to Corpus Christi for example. When you are rated in the category and class of the aircraft that you are flying and by yourself you can log the time as both solo and PIC time. The small Jeppesen logbooks have one column for PIC which includes solo time, that is what trips most people up. I have to tell my students all the time that they are different.

Bottom line is that anytime you are the sole occupant of the aircraft, log it as solo time. Likewise anytime you are rated in a certian category and class of aircraft, log it as PIC time.

I have about 200 hours of solo/PIC logged for cross-country trips and any flight time that I logged when I was the only person in the aircraft. I hope that helps.

If you have any questions about filling out your 8710 please P.M. or e-mail me. I put them together for my students all the time and I have never had any paperwork sent back for being incorrect.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Solo time means "sole occupant of the aircraft". You can log solo time if you have your PPL and decide to fly from Colorado Springs to Corpus Christi for example. When you are rated in the category and class of the aircraft that you are flying and by yourself you can log the time as both solo and PIC time. The small Jeppesen logbooks have one column for PIC which includes solo time, that is what trips most people up. I have to tell my students all the time that they are different.

As you can see above, I completely disagree.

I've been to many CFI refresher courses over the last 20 years and have filled out a lot of 8710s. No one hase ever had your definition other than the original poster's CFI. You guys the same?

If you have any questions about filling out your 8710 please P.M. or e-mail me. I put them together for my students all the time and I have never had any paperwork sent back for being incorrect.

Probably because the flight time block only matters for the minimum required for the license or rating and the DEs only check that. They could care less if there is 25 hours solo or 500 hours solo.

 

[FelixTheGreat]

Your are right that you only have to put down the time required for the rating. But as a general rule, I was told by a D.E. that the FSDO likes to see applicants put what they have in there logbook, meaning total solo time and etc.

Our Cheif pilot here pointed out to me once where the FAA has the definition for solo time in the regs. Like if a student is going through a 141 commercial rating for example, they need to have X amount of solo cross-country time. Since they already hold a pilot certificate for a single-engine land aircraft, they need to log the time as solo and PIC to meet the minimums

 

[MIDNJAC]

Not really related to solo vs. PIC time, but is it appropriate to log military flight time in your civ records for FAA currency purposes? Or does the category and type of time prevent you from doing this?

 

[FelixTheGreat]

I just found an e-mail our cheif pilot sent out a while ago and hopefully will claify things.

Changes to the federal aviation regulations that took effect on August 4, 1997, clarified this point. A person may log PIC time when they are the sole occupant of the aircraft, and this applies to student pilots as well. FAR 61.51(e)(4) says, "A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time when the student pilot (i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; (ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under [FAR] 61.87; and (iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating." So be sure to log all of your applicable solo time as PIC time.

 

[HAL Pilot]

. Since they already hold a pilot certificate for a single-engine land aircraft, they need to log the time as solo and PIC to meet the minimums

No, they just need to log it as PIC with no dual received for the flight.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I just found an e-mail our cheif pilot sent out a while ago and hopefully will claify things.

Changes to the federal aviation regulations that took effect on August 4, 1997, clarified this point. A person may log PIC time when they are the sole occupant of the aircraft, and this applies to student pilots as well. FAR 61.51(e)(4) says, "A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time when the student pilot (i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; (ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under [FAR] 61.87; and (iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating." So be sure to log all of your applicable solo time as PIC time.

This I agree. That is why there is no solo column in most logbooks. Logging solo is totally unnecessary.

Before that reg changed, it was specifically stated that if you were not rated in the aircraft and you were the sole occupant, you logged solo not PIC. Solo is a leftover meaningless category. I've only seen it used as I described to the original poster.

 

[Tom]

This I agree. That is why there is no solo column in most logbooks. Logging solo is totally unnecessary.

Before that reg changed, it was specifically stated that if you were not rated in the aircraft and you were the sole occupant, you logged solo not PIC. Solo is a leftover meaningless category. I've only seen it used as I described to the original poster.

I agree with HAL here. To be honest I'm really confused why the solo time idea is even an issue in the first place. There is a big difference by what you have to do and what the FAA likes. At the 141 school I went to solo time was not a big deal. This is why the argument confuses me.