Life After NFO

[sailorgloom]

NFOs:

I am currently considering going NFO. I qualify and all that jazz. What concerns me is that I mentioned NFO to one of my fraternity brothers who is in the fleet and he said, "Yah, NFO means 'No Future Out'" (of course, he's not an NFO).

What kinds of jobs do NFOs or out of community NFOs get in their twilight service years (command, joint service, attache, NCA)? How about after military retirement (consulting with SAIC/LMCO/Boeing, GS14+/SES work)?

I'd really appreciate an honest no B.S. assessment before I PCS to Pensacola. Sorry to be blunt, but I sure as hell don't want to work at a Home Depot or Piggly Wiggly after 20+ years in the fleet as an NFO.

-SG

 

[wink]

sailorgloom,
I sorry but I keep posting to this question and I just don't understand the logic. Can you guys just think about it for a minute. I will accept the lack of knowledge about the militray career path, but the question about civilian employment is idiotic. If the premise of your question is taken to its conclusion, then every SWO, Submariner, let alone Artillery Off. would be unemployed now. The only job available to a pilot not available to an NFO on leaving the service is pilot. Now if that is the only job in the world, then you would have something to worry about. Piloting skills are not needed for the other 99.9% of the jobs out there. I can look around to my former squadronmates and find they have done pretty well. Lots of guys in aero industry as engineers, including flight test engineers, and program managers, avionics marketing/rep (big $$), telcom security guy, lawyers, pharmaceutical sales rep (more big $$) airline dispatcher, air traffic controler, FBI agent (several), consultants and private military contracters by the thousands, and yes airline pilots (myself and others). The former SECNAV John Lehman was a NFO. You don't even have to be a pilot to be an astronaut. There was a submariner mission specialist, I'm sure there are several NFOs in the astronaut corp. Start with your degree or prior work experience, though not limited to that, and then figure you have tons of management/leadership experience with a proven record of responsiblity and crisis/stress mangment on leaving the service. Also have a TS clearance or better which is worth a few bucks to many employers. So here is what you can expect for career opportunities in the navy as a NFO. You can hold every job a pilot can hold but drive a plane and be a LSO. There you have it. That is the short answer. To be specific, there is no limit to command for NFOs. In fact, squadrons with NFO crewed aircraft alternate pilot and NFO commanding officers. Above squadron command, in most cases it doesn't even matter if you are an aviation officer, you compete for those jobs with other unrestricted line officers, like SWOs. Attaches, joint service tours, foriegn exchange, instructor, flag aide, staff officer(including presidential, JCS etc), recruiting, ship's company, program managers, and more, all available to NFOs and other URL officers. Equal opportunity for promotion all the way to the top. This isn't the Air Farse. We are not pilot centric.

 

[hotshotgunship]

sailorgloom

Listen to wink my man. I don't like that term for an NFO at all. Listen here buddy, Pilot or NFO is dosen't matter. Both people still work extremely hard to become those postions. Its kind of ironic that you would listen to one of you frat buddies and actually retain what he said about NFOs. The reality is, you dont' just become an NFO for some years and after military life you are some how born again and know nothing to the point that you would be working at Home Depot or what not. Come on man, its not like that. Everything that you learn in life dosen't just become a piece of waisted cells in your brain. As a NFO or pilot you will be logging coutless hours or experience in the most sophisticated avionics in the world. You will have hands on experience on some of the most demanding job skills known today. First of all you are AN OFFICER in the United States armed forces, a leader. That alone takes much dedication and responsibility to achieve. You do not know how valuable that knowledge is to potential civilian employers. Employers need leaders and are willing to pay for those qualified applicants.
Secondly, There are people out there that only dream that they can sit in the back seat of EA6B prowler during war times or even have the feeling of launching off an aircraft carrier. Whatever aircraft you operate from, or whatever you do as an NFO you are still much admired by thousands. Like what wink said, there are many many jobs outside of the military that the skills you learn from the military. If you wish to become a pilot after military life, you can always get private lessons outside while still in the service, get all your flight hours, ratings, and along with your degree, hours, ratings, and military background, you are more then a qualified candidate to work in the airline industry. Instead of starting with a major airline, you will first have to get your feet wet with a regional.
I have to tell you. I'm in the slow process of getting in (hopefully some flight program) but if I qualify for NFO, I'm going to go for it. So I don't get to log flight hours. At least I get to tell the pilot were to go in combat and be the one to pull trigger (some times). Bottom line if you have a chance at NFO take it my man. You won't regret anything you learn in the military. Besides think of all the other benfits military life will give you.

 

[Valion310]

Awesome posts guys, very smart and very true. Here is another something else to think about if the whole "social status" thing is a concern to you and you are affraid of being "Slider" (who probably got laid just as much as Iceman for you all who base your lives of Top Gun.) When you get "Winged" you are apart of a JOINT brotherhood of PILOTS. Wings of Gold are Wings of Gold, no matter what. I myself would prefer to be the one logging PIC hours, but if Uncle Sam wants me in the back seat or right seat putting a laser on Osama's head, or jamming a SAM site as part of a hunter killer package, then I sure am going to do it. But I know what a Commission is worth in todays civilian and federal markets. And whether your a Pilot or NFO, your are forever a Naval Aviator and if you want proof. Join the Tail Hook Association, attend one of the yearly conferences, ask the Director of Officer Assentions (recruiting @ CNRC) (who is an NFO) who looks at ALL of our packages before we are accepted.

The only love lost between Pilots and NFO's is at the bar poking fun at eachother over the beer they buy for each other. For those of you who have never served, what you think you know from the outside and a lot of the gobblity gook muckity muck you hear from the outside can be thrown in the garbage, listen to those who have served and understand.

Anyway, fear not, your career is exactly what you make of it no matter what route is taken, but seriously, the above posts are COMPLETELY correct. And like I briefly mentioned with good humor in another topic, go ahead, turn down your NFO slots. More for those of us who want them.

Valion310 frustrated at his scores, but that ISNT stopping me!

 

[Valion310]

Originally posted by sailorgloom
NFOs:

I mentioned NFO to one of my fraternity brothers who is in the fleet and he said, "Yah, NFO means 'No Future Out'" (of course, he's not an NFO).

Just out of pure curiosity, what does your Frat bro do in the fleet?

 

[sailorgloom]

Originally posted by Valion310

Just out of pure curiosity, what does your Frat bro do in the fleet?

He's an Intel weenie.

Guys, thanks for all the useful information.

-SG

 

[hotshotgunship]

Goodluck to you sailorgloom

 

[Frumby]

At least I get to tell the pilot were to go in combat and be the one to pull trigger (some times).

Really! Well shut my mouth and stick a banana in front of my face so this monkey can fly. That's the biggest horse's ass comment if I've ever heard one. The Pilot/NFO team is a formidable weapon system but if you show a lack of respect like that to your pilot you will degrade yourself into mere baggage. BTW, what platform or weapons system allows the NFO with a "Hot Pickle?" I'm just curious.
Semper Fly, Frumby
Attack Pilot
LtCol USMCR

 

[wink]

The PIC always has the master arm, as it should be. Once armed, I could drop a nuke from the back seat or copilots seat as an NFO. As I recall Tomcat guys could launch from the back seat too. A-6 BNs were just that, bombadiers. Depends how you ment it Frumby. The wannabe was right in that the NFO has a "trigger". And don't try telling anyone that has been there that you didn't take direction from the ECMOs when getting in the best position for the music. A nugget pilot on a complicated high viz mission, let alone combat, would do well to at least play bus driver in between getting everyone on and off the ship safe and sound. I don't believe there was any suggestion of a lack of respect. I don't disrespect the guy that puts it back on the deck safely leaving me in the mood for the movie and mid rat sliders. I sure wouldn't want to disrespect you in any case Frumby, I might need the jumpseat from ya to get to work some day .

 

[Frumby]

Actually, I was asking because I really didn't know. I knew about the old stuff such as the A-6 and I believe you are correct about F-14A and B. Rarely see the D's anymore but I don't think the software or even the hardware allows for a NFO Hot Pickle. I was more referring to the plastic jets not Grumman Iron or Lockheed STEEL. It's not possible in the F/A-18D (Jarhead, if you are out there correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't know about the F-15E or the F/A-18F. Just wanted a basic reeducation in the event I have to give a hip pocket class to my Marines.
Wink, I know he meant nothing by it but do you know how many times I have heard that from junior NFO's? Just trying to save him some personal grief later on in his career. I've been with the grunts for to long so their Ahole mentality is wearing off. I'll be swinging with the wing again in a few months so I'll learn to mellow again.
Man, you can have my jumpseat any day you would like. Are you flying 80's out of DFW or New York? Hope life at AA is settling down a bit. By any chance, do you know a guy named John Cote or JC Cote. Buddy of mine who is flying 80's out of New York. I think he's the last guy at AA that I know who hasn't been furloughed. BTW, did you see the announcement that they are going to put winglets on all of our 700 fleet. Looks a little cooler but if you dress up a bus you get a bus in a dress. Frumby

Attack Pilot
LtCol USMCR

 

[ghost_ttu]

Frumby what is the reason for the winglets addition? I mean my understanding is that they just provide better stability, so a more smoothe ride. One thing I know about SWA is that they try to operate as low cost as possible. Just doesn't seem like a necessary cost, and doesn't present any cost savings. What am I missing?

Also, I'd be curious who hits the pickle on the 15E. I know the WSO guides the ordnance, not sure who pickles it though.

Eliminate distractions, focus on your goals and visualize what you hope to accomplish.

 

[wink]

Thanks for the jumpseat offer. I'm LAX based. Haven't heard of JC Cote. I'm lucky to be nowhere near furlough. Saw your other post about the winglets. Purdy cool. I have seen the ATA birds with them. The proportion seems larger than on other winglet aircraft. And I understand the need to get the nuggets off on the right foot. I had to straighten out a couple nugget pilots in my career, goes both ways. You teach a guy to be a single seat strike pilot in the VTs then he ends up with someone in the cockpit to consider. Can be tough for some. On the other hand, even a nugget NFO has a job to do when the XO is driving and he better have to confidence to speak up. I know we agree.

 

[Frumby]

Now I'm not an engineer so the Aero guys out there can give you the technical response. To me, its all magic and I'm not going to embarass myself by explaining it with my knowledge of Aerodynamics from API. Supposedly, it wil create greater range, 115nm to be exact and is expected to save $92,000 gallons of fuel next year. One year of fuel savings will more then pay for the new program. Lastly, it just makes a bus a little more cooler to look at! Semper Fly, Frumby

Attack Pilot
LtCol USMCR

 

[Valion310]

I think the winglet idea is to help keep more of the lifting pressure on the under side of the wing since the outter section produces the least amount of lift and the pressure tends to want to escape around the outside of the wing? I think we talked about that one day in one of my Aero classes, but I'm no expert, still just a college desk strike driver.

Then again, maybe they are there to tell the warp drive is perameters when routing popcorn through the flux capacitor.

Valion310 bites his nails ... package goes down in 3 weeks ... EEP!

 

[hotshotgunship]

Frumby

No disrespect to either pilot or NFO. I'm sure that all PICS have there hands on the triggers ONLY!!! nowadays, but the point I'm trying to make is that I believe that both people are or how ever many NFOs are in the a/c are all equal. They're both busting their asses to be able to operate weapons systems, or radar and navigation systems. As far as I concerned NFO and pilots are one. Combine that with an aircraft such as an F-14 and they are the most dangerous f%$#king weapon in the sky. I don't like how people stereotype NFO as having no future. I believe that everyone in the service has a future. Its what they make of it that counts.