Level D time towards ATP?

[xj220]

I tried searching around and keep getting conflicting reports or incomplete information. I read Part 61 and Part 142 of the FAR but it's difficult to follow at times. I have the chance to get my ATP but my hours are just shy of the required 1500 unless I use some of my sim time. It looked like in Part 61 you can use up to 100 hrs (which is enough) if the sims were certified by Part 142. I assume military training would count, but I my knowledge of the civilian side is very limited. Any information or help would be appreciated.

 

[wink]

A level D sim should count. In the bigs we don't get any time in the plane before flying paxs. The type rating and if necessary ATP ride is done in the sim. In practice, it is up to the FSDO guy that reviews your log book. Most FSDO guys are way cool to military aviators. They won't be too critical. Just drop the logs on the counter and look confident. If he says too short all you did was invest an hour or so, depending on how far you had to drive. There is no jeopardy. You just come back again.

 

[ChunksJR]

Gotta give a plug to Shepard here. Cheapest, most efficient way to get your gouge for the test. Trust me on this one. I did it the hard way (going 3 hrs from PCola to study out of a book, which was significantly more expensive.)

 

[webmaster]

Concur. Use sheppard air gouge. Well worth it and spot on prep.

 

[xj220]

I'm using the Shepard test prep right now and that's good to hear. If I take the test and pass, how long is it good for? The place that is doing my checkride allows 0.3 additional for each flight but it still brings me short. I'll work with them and hopefully it will count, thanks for the help.

 

[e6bflyer]

I'm using the Shepard test prep right now and that's good to hear. If I take the test and pass, how long is it good for? The place that is doing my checkride allows 0.3 additional for each flight but it still brings me short. I'll work with them and hopefully it will count, thanks for the help.

Test is good for two years. I really don't know about the level D sim. If you can take the test and then get the hours before your check, that may be best. You may be able to call the FSDO and ask for a ruling before heading down there.

 

[e6bflyer]

Also make sure that the .3 for each flight is indeed each leg. The navy logs multi leg flights as one flight sometimes, and you essentially have two or three flights logged as 1. For example, take off, stop and pick up pax, return to base is two flights.

 

[statesman]

The only thing I can offer is gouge, but this is what I was told in P-8 land:

Even though the P-8 sim is essentially a COTS product slightly modified with some new switches and buttons for us, but otherwise EXACTLY the same as a 737-NG sim, we (the Navy) did not certify the trainer, and therefore it can not be used as time counting towards totals for non-mil flying.

If we cant use our P-8 sim time, I doubt we can use our P-3 sim time.

 

[jollygreen07]

The only thing I can offer is gouge, but this is what I was told in P-8 land:

Even though the P-8 sim is essentially a COTS product slightly modified with some new switches and buttons for us, but otherwise EXACTLY the same as a 737-NG sim, we (the Navy) did not certify the trainer, and therefore it can not be used as time counting towards totals for non-mil flying.

If we cant use our P-8 sim time, I doubt we can use our P-3 sim time.

Same thing here in E-6 land. We have a Level-D "equivalent" sim, but the Navy didn't pay for the certification. You might as well be trying to count the time in a cardboard box with some dials and switches drawn in it.

 

[707guy]

Same thing here in E-6 land. We have a Level-D "equivalent" sim, but the Navy didn't pay for the certification. You might as well be trying to count the time in a cardboard box with some dials and switches drawn in it.

This kind of stuff is just stupid IMHO... Navy (Government) needs to get a simulator certified by FAA (Government) for the time to count. I mean really folks we're all on the same team here.

 

[xj220]

A level D sim should count. In the bigs we don't get any time in the plane before flying paxs. The type rating and if necessary ATP ride is done in the sim. In practice, it is up to the FSDO guy that reviews your log book. Most FSDO guys are way cool to military aviators. They won't be too critical. Just drop the logs on the counter and look confident. If he says too short all you did was invest an hour or so, depending on how far you had to drive. There is no jeopardy. You just come back again.

It's disheartening to hear about our simulators but I'll try your approach Wink. It's one of those things where I'll let them tell me know instead of counting myself out.

 

[gotta_fly]

This kind of stuff is just stupid IMHO... Navy (Government) needs to get a simulator certified by FAA (Government) for the time to count. I mean really folks we're all on the same team here.

Actually the problem is one of money. The way it was explained to me, a level D sim has flight dynamics modeled from several different aircraft. The Navy paid for ours to be modeled off of one specific jet. Basically instead of an E-6B sim, we have a device that simulates a single E-6. Good enough for Navy training since we don't need to log sim time as flight time. It would be nice if we could, but tough to justify the Navy padding our logbooks for the outside.

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[wink]

It's disheartening to hear about our simulators but I'll try your approach Wink. It's one of those things where I'll let them tell me know instead of counting myself out.

Yea, never heard about the whole sim certification thing. I bet it is the navy making these pronouncements. Not the FSDO. Even if true, the average FSDO guy will not know the difference, or likely care. Sure some like to bust your chops, but not many. Have a guy diss you in one location, take it to another. Consider this. As a VS NFO I spent time in the copilot’s seat with full controls. By completing certain maneuvers in the S-3 sim, like take off single engine failure, single engine approach, couple others, I was able to get my front seat time countered as civ second in command. Totally cool with every fed out there? Maybe not. It met the letter of the regs though so it was good enough for the fed that reviewed my log, and the airline that hired me. And the S-3 sim was not equivalent to any civ aircraft let alone a P-8 level D.

 

[jollygreen07]

Actually the problem is one of money. The way it was explained to me, a level D sim has flight dynamics modeled from several different aircraft. The Navy paid for ours to be modeled off of one specific jet. Basically instead of an E-6B sim, we have a device that simulates a single E-6. Good enough for Navy training since we don't need to log sim time as flight time. It would be nice if we could, but tough to justify the Navy padding our logbooks for the outside.

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Yeah, 408. and it flies nothing like 408. I hate(d) the ELDES.

 

[707guy]

Actually the problem is one of money. The way it was explained to me, a level D sim has flight dynamics modeled from several different aircraft. The Navy paid for ours to be modeled off of one specific jet. Basically instead of an E-6B sim, we have a device that simulates a single E-6. Good enough for Navy training since we don't need to log sim time as flight time. It would be nice if we could, but tough to justify the Navy padding our logbooks for the outside.

I can understand that just makes no sense to me why the FAA wouldn't blanket authorize all your sim time as acceptable for any civilian rating. Just a GOV red tape thing that irritates me.