Law of War/Law of Armed Conflict Discussion

[statesman]

Was checking out this video and was surprised at the small caliber gun protecting the tail is the weight factor of a .50 cal that critical they can't use one.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=20d_1205419520

Could be mission specific. As I understand you are not allowed to shoot AT a person with a .50 cal machine gun, or there are limitations, just as there are limitations regarding what ammo you can shoot. If they are not expected to engage vehicles, might be something the JAG required.

Additionally, a .308 is not such a 'small caliber'. I certainly wouldn't want to be on the business end of that.

 

[SH-60OB]

Could be mission specific. As I understand you are not allowed to shoot AT a person with a .50 cal machine gun, or there are limitations, just as there are limitations regarding what ammo you can shoot. If they are not expected to engage vehicles, might be something the JAG required.

^^ Myth ​

U.S. NAVY NWP 1-14M (Formerly NWP 9 (Rev. A))
U.S. MARINE CORPS MCWP5-2.1
U.S. COAST GUARD COMDTPUB P5800.7​

other wise known as: THE COMMANDER’S HANDBOOK ON THE LAW OF NAVAL OPERATIONS​

9.1.1 Unnecessary Suffering.

Antipersonnel weapons are designed to kill or disable enemy combatants and are lawful notwithstanding the death, pain, and suffering they inflict. Weapons that are designed to cause unnecessary suffering or superfluous injury are, however, prohibited because the degree of pain or injury, or the certainty of death they produce is needlessly or clearly disproportionate to the military advantage to be gained by their use. Poisoned projectiles and small arms ammunition intended to cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering fall into this category. Similarly, using materials that are difficult to detect or ndetectable by field x-ray equipment, such as glass or clear plastic, as the injuring mechanism in military ammunition is prohibited, since they unnecessarily inhibit the treatment of wounds. Use of such materials as incidental components in ammunition, e.g., as wadding or packing, is not prohibited. Use of .50 caliber weapons against individual enemy combatants does not constitute a violation of this proscription against unnecessary suffering or superfluous injury.​

​

For a more erudite and thorough explanation please see​

http://dorkafork.com/blog/?p=104​

 

[Ace_Austin]

As I understand you are not allowed to shoot AT a person with a .50 cal machine gun, or there are limitations...

If your not shooting AT someone, or through a cinder block wall, 2 interior walls and a wardrobe AT someone... whats the bloody point of bringing the .50 to work? As for these limitations... I would think they would be something like this "LCpl Smith, I know as much fun as it is, try to fight the urge to unload the entire belt on the as*holes. 5 rounds is plenty to vaporize them."

 

[hscs]

Could be mission specific. As I understand you are not allowed to shoot AT a person with a .50 cal machine gun, or there are limitations, just as there are limitations regarding what ammo you can shoot. If they are not expected to engage vehicles, might be something the JAG required.

Additionally, a .308 is not such a 'small caliber'. I certainly wouldn't want to be on the business end of that.

Statesman -- until you have actually been briefed about ROE from a JAG and had a weapon on a plane that you might have to use, I suggest you keep comments like this to yourself. They are just plain wrong.

 

[statesman]

It appears I was wrong. I had gotten my information from an active duty Marine here at my unit who has been to Iraq. Granted not a JAG, but I gave the gouge credibility. My mistake.

 

[p1brule]

Have you ever heard of a MAP or a CATT teams? What do you think they're using? Ma deuces and mark 19's baby. Bring what works.

And having talked to some of the pilots out at P River, they're trying all sorts of things to see what works best as a defense weapon in the Osprey. They're thought is that the superior speed of the Osprey will make it a less likely target than say a 53. So it may not require as much defensive firepower. Btw, 53s have .50s too.

 

[eddie]

Have you ever heard of a MAP or a CATT teams?

No. What are those?

 

[Mitch]

It's CAAT. Combined Anti-Armor Team. Combined Javelin and Heavy Machine Gun sections from weapons company. MAP = Mobile Assault Platoon. Composition varies from one battalion to the next but typically includes Marines from the three major players in a weapons company (81s, Javelins/TOW, and HMG). 3-4 MAPs per Bn. Obviously very mobile w/ a lot of firepower. Mortars are typically left in the rear.

 

[Mitch]

[quote Mortars are typically left in the rear.[/quote]

allow myself to quote myself...the tubes, not the Marines

 

[phrogpilot73]

Mortars are typically left in the rear.

allow myself to quote myself...the tubes, not the Marines[/quote]

No worries. I understand what you meant - I would have expected you to say the "mortarmen" if you meant the Marines. Plus, my last tour was in an Infantry Battalion, so I knew what you meant.

 

[Cavrone]

Statesman -- until you have actually been briefed about ROE from a JAG and had a weapon on a plane that you might have to use, I suggest you keep comments like this to yourself. They are just plain wrong.

Probably outdated, but I was taught the same thing at MCT. No engagement of personnel with a .50 cal.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Probably outdated, but I was taught the same thing at MCT. No engagement of personnel with a .50 cal.

Can we get rid of this myth forever?!:icon_rage If you have a 1.00 cal, it is perfectly legal to shoot the enemy with. You can shoot them with 20mm, 30mm, and in fact you can drop 2000# bombs on them.

 

[raptor10]

Can we get rid of this myth forever?!:icon_rage If you have a 1.00 cal, it is perfectly legal to shoot the enemy with. You can shoot them with 20mm, 30mm, and in fact you can drop 2000# bombs on them.

No way! 2000# bombs! Won't that, like, kill them‽

 

[FLYTPAY]

No way! 2000# bombs! Won't that, like, kill them‽

Unfortunately it typically kills them quickly.

 

[SH-60OB]

Can we get rid of this myth forever?!:icon_rage If you have a 1.00 cal, it is perfectly legal to shoot the enemy with. You can shoot them with 20mm, 30mm, and in fact you can drop 2000# bombs on them.

What he said^^^