CLAM97to99
New Member
I was wondering where the majority of people drop (or get dropped) in flight school? Whether it is during API or at some point after, and if there was a point where the chances of getting dropped are slim to none?
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- Thread starter CLAM97to99
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From my limited exposure, I would have to say the majority of drops are in Primary. People who realize they just don't like flying or this isn't the job for them. Primary seems to be more of a test -- ie. prove you should be here. Advanced seems to have a more 'ok, let's train you now' atmosphere. That doesn't mean advanced is easier by any means - people still attrite, but they seem more willing to work with you to help you out. If you drop in API for academic reasons, sorry, but you're a dumbass. If you drop for other reasons, fine - 'tis better to realize it's not for you early in the game and save a lot of people time, money, and effort.
And ya, the point where getting dropped is slim to none is almost non-existent in the world of Naval Aviation. Instructors told us stories of guys who got the boot from a fleet squadron because they couldn't cut the mustard after one pump. If you're going through the program constantly worrying about getting attrited, you are going about it all wrong. If you show a real desire to be there, and a drive to succeed, they will work with you. If you just do enough to get by, and think it's owed to you, when you have problems, no one is going to care.
/my .02
And ya, the point where getting dropped is slim to none is almost non-existent in the world of Naval Aviation. Instructors told us stories of guys who got the boot from a fleet squadron because they couldn't cut the mustard after one pump. If you're going through the program constantly worrying about getting attrited, you are going about it all wrong. If you show a real desire to be there, and a drive to succeed, they will work with you. If you just do enough to get by, and think it's owed to you, when you have problems, no one is going to care.
/my .02
Patmack18 said:
I would have to agree with that. API gets rid of the people who don't want to put forth the effort or medical issues. Squeeze is right though in the fact that the Primary does see a lot of people who find that flying is not what they thought it would be like, and therefore not for them.
As squeeze was saying though, as long as you can prove that you want to be there and are giving it your best, both in primary and more so in advanced, they (IPs) will do what it takes to teach you and get you to where you need to be. It is even more so with the new helo sylabus (MPTS) a few IP's are calling it Must Pass Terrible Students because it is so hard to fail out. In the old syllabus you had to have a certain number of "Aboves" to get winged, now it is looking like you just have to finish and meet MIF...
As long as you want to become a naval aviator and are willing to bust your butt, you should not have any problems with atttrition.
I'll just say this...if you attrite, and are lucky enough to not get kicked out of the Navy, you have a life of SWO ahead of you. That is NOT something you want. Take it from one who just got his lateral transfer to 1375 approved.
Elder
US Coast Guard C-130 Demonstration Team
API - I know a girl that made it through first week of API before the Docs realized her sitting reach was too short. They removed her from API. Our O-6 allowed her to stick around and build up her back muscles. It worked, and she went off to IFS, API and now is in her third week of Primary.
I know 4 people who have left Primary. 2 DOR'ed and had same on-wing.
First one, well, they weren't too thrilled at IFS. Flying simply wasn't their bag. DOR'ed like at FAM 10 or so.
Second person DOR'ed in middle of BI flights. Wasn't looking forward to getting back to FAM's.
Third, well, that person had migraines, and was NPQ'ed after going to medical several times. Don't think they were too into flying.
Fourth, apparently had PRK and had haloes from the lights at night. Granted, they never flew a night flight. I don't think it was their bag either.
I personally know of noone that was booted due to attrition, yet. It does happen, but rarely.. and you really have to suck. I know people that have had a lot of unsats, even during PA's - ie lost the landing sight picture.. people that struggeled through late stage FAMs.. All just picked up the pieces and moved forward and are doing it.
I do know a person that failed their Systems Test and think Course Rules and also had a ready room down for FAM 1. Not a great way to start. I think they've worked out the personal issues in their life and we'll see how it goes. I'm going to try to keep an eye on them. Think the first person I know of since I've been here that had a ready room down.
Hell, the guy that ran off the runway a couple of months ago is still moving on.
If you TRULY want it, STUDY. STUDY STUDY STUDY, and do your best to perform. The current Commodore up here is supposedly unreal.. people have gone before him for whatever performane boards they do when people are sucking.. some of them had high recommendations from the Squadron CO to Attrite the person.. Commodore says, "I'll go up with ya".. SNA and Commodore go up, Commodore says, "Looks good to me, you stay."
Heck, there is even a SNA that was in one squadron, that I think had a lot of problems there during FAMS. I think mostly with their flying and stuff, not so much personal.. I think their CO wanted them out bad.. well, long story short, they passed whatever ICP flights or whatever they are called, and TW5 switched them into a different squadron. They just did their Basic FORM Solo Friday - i.e. making it happen, doing what it takes.. performing.
SOOOO, as you can see, if you are trying your hardest, studying to learn procedures (BIG BIG), and trying your best in the plane, it's REALLY hard to get kicked out. But you have to be working. You have to study, pass the tests, do good at the briefs, and all should be good. IFS and API are day camp compared to Primary. The learning curve does taper off for a bit after FAMs.. i.e. life gets better.. not as stressed, etc..
I'm in RI's, haven't flown in a few weeks, and miss it.. wanted to jump in a plane Thursday and just go anywhere.. sigh.
I know 4 people who have left Primary. 2 DOR'ed and had same on-wing.
First one, well, they weren't too thrilled at IFS. Flying simply wasn't their bag. DOR'ed like at FAM 10 or so.
Second person DOR'ed in middle of BI flights. Wasn't looking forward to getting back to FAM's.
Third, well, that person had migraines, and was NPQ'ed after going to medical several times. Don't think they were too into flying.
Fourth, apparently had PRK and had haloes from the lights at night. Granted, they never flew a night flight. I don't think it was their bag either.
I personally know of noone that was booted due to attrition, yet. It does happen, but rarely.. and you really have to suck. I know people that have had a lot of unsats, even during PA's - ie lost the landing sight picture.. people that struggeled through late stage FAMs.. All just picked up the pieces and moved forward and are doing it.
I do know a person that failed their Systems Test and think Course Rules and also had a ready room down for FAM 1. Not a great way to start. I think they've worked out the personal issues in their life and we'll see how it goes. I'm going to try to keep an eye on them. Think the first person I know of since I've been here that had a ready room down.
Hell, the guy that ran off the runway a couple of months ago is still moving on.
If you TRULY want it, STUDY. STUDY STUDY STUDY, and do your best to perform. The current Commodore up here is supposedly unreal.. people have gone before him for whatever performane boards they do when people are sucking.. some of them had high recommendations from the Squadron CO to Attrite the person.. Commodore says, "I'll go up with ya".. SNA and Commodore go up, Commodore says, "Looks good to me, you stay."
Heck, there is even a SNA that was in one squadron, that I think had a lot of problems there during FAMS. I think mostly with their flying and stuff, not so much personal.. I think their CO wanted them out bad.. well, long story short, they passed whatever ICP flights or whatever they are called, and TW5 switched them into a different squadron. They just did their Basic FORM Solo Friday - i.e. making it happen, doing what it takes.. performing.
SOOOO, as you can see, if you are trying your hardest, studying to learn procedures (BIG BIG), and trying your best in the plane, it's REALLY hard to get kicked out. But you have to be working. You have to study, pass the tests, do good at the briefs, and all should be good. IFS and API are day camp compared to Primary. The learning curve does taper off for a bit after FAMs.. i.e. life gets better.. not as stressed, etc..
I'm in RI's, haven't flown in a few weeks, and miss it.. wanted to jump in a plane Thursday and just go anywhere.. sigh.
Irrumpo
I fought the law and the law won
Talking about going SWO after attrition, I am pretty sure that after being attrited from flight training we are on the asphalt (NPQ or otherwise) due to the RIFF. At least that's the story around API. I would be interested to know if that is the same throughout the whole training pipeline all the way to winging.
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