GOUGE Is IDTT Mandatory to CAI units?

[snake020]

I've recently moved from NYC to California and my CAI unit is in Norfolk. Old CO did not ask us to come in on IDTT, but new CO is now making it a quarterly requirement. When I inquired about the intent, part of the reply is "we expect our CAI Sailors to drill with us quarterly IAW CNRFC policy."

However, I don't see anything in CNRFC policy requiring IDTT drills. Here, they state Cross-assigned personnel are *encouraged to travel to their supported command at least once per quarter or per the Active Component command OSPlan." The FY20 Force Execution Guidance doesn't mandate it either.

I know I can rectify this by submitting for a new set of orders in JOAPPLY, but then I'd likely find myself moving units again (just did a TRUIC change for the move in Sept) and spiralling myself into a larger mess as I anticipate having to get orders adjusted for an overseas move that'll take place at the end of the calendar year. I'd rather just maintain the status quo and not go on IDTT more than the upcoming one.

Appreciate any gouge on this.

 

[nittany03]

My first question is whether this is really a hill you want to die on with that front office. I'm not really keen on doing a science project tonight diving into the references, but as I understand it, the unit CO is allowed quite a bit of leeway whether or not to draw a hard line on IDTT. I was always under the impression that it was technically required, but the enforcement was on the CO. Most (i.e. all) COs I've seen have been content with making sure there was the opportunity for everyone to come out, but not ordering them to.

Cross-country cross-assignment is stupid. I've seen it too much already, and it seems like a cop-out to avoid detailing people properly. A former boat roommate of mine lives in New England and got cross-assigned to my unit in San Diego. Which is ridiculous, when we have sister units in Hampton Roads. That said, if it's the shit sandwich you've got, I'd recommend at least taking a bite, and socializing your situation with the XO or someone else that can tell you if your Skipper is cool with cutting you a break, or if you'll look dumb for asking.

 

[snake020]

My first question is whether this is really a hill you want to die on with that front office. I'm not really keen on doing a science project tonight diving into the references, but as I understand it, the unit CO is allowed quite a bit of leeway whether or not to draw a hard line on IDTT. I was always under the impression that it was technically required, but the enforcement was on the CO. Most (i.e. all) COs I've seen have been content with making sure there was the opportunity for everyone to come out, but not ordering them to.

Cross-country cross-assignment is stupid. I've seen it too much already, and it seems like a cop-out to avoid detailing people properly. A former boat roommate of mine lives in New England and got cross-assigned to my unit in San Diego. Which is ridiculous, when we have sister units in Hampton Roads. That said, if it's the shit sandwich you've got, I'd recommend at least taking a bite, and socializing your situation with the XO or someone else that can tell you if your Skipper is cool with cutting you a break, or if you'll look dumb for asking.

The irony in this is I wouldn't have minded IDTT when I was on the east coast but the last CO didn't give opportunities. It seems like submitting in JO APPLY this quarter is probably the best solution, with the concern being I'll be applying for new orders only to have to ask for a PRD adjustment to resubmit at the end of the year.

 

[Jim123]

Not trying to sound flippant, just a couple of direct questions-

Are you okay with being fitrep fodder for the unit?

Can you get a reserve retirement at your current paygrade?


As @nittany03 just asked, is this a hill you're willing to die on?

I've been out of the game for a year and a half (and I was FTS, but I promise you I gave a shit about what it would be like to be a SELRES which means I did pay attention to their issues), but IDTT seemed to be based on whether there was money for it, and more often than not there was money for it.

 

[nittany03]

The irony in this is I wouldn't have minded IDTT when I was on the east coast but the last CO didn't give opportunities. It seems like submitting in JO APPLY this quarter is probably the best solution, with the concern being I'll be applying for new orders only to have to ask for a PRD adjustment to resubmit at the end of the year.

Yeah, sounds like you got boned by the TRUIC shift. I had the exact opposite problem as a new reservist. I took orders to my current unit CAI from Whidbey, and like your last CO, that head shed gave zero shits about us. So I was in OSU hell for 2 years, then MOBed, then said "fuck it, I'm commuting." And as OPS, I made it a point to fund every CAI Sailor every quarter like I would have wanted, but only like 20 percent actually bothered to cut orders. Head shed's response was essentially "meh, bigger fish to fry."

On the other hand, I can't get too high and mighty, because my previously mentioned former roommate is part of that 20 percent. He takes quarterly redeyes back to NE, and shows up to work the next day, because he's that kind of officer. All respect to the guy; he could have been an FRS instructor if he'd wanted, but that's just a dumbass situation to put the guy in. So I see both sides.

@Jim123, he doesn't even have to worry about being FITREP fodder as a CAI, because his TRUIC CO writes his FITREP. CAI getting a FITREP from the UMUIC is doable. But they'd be fodder by definition anyway, because they're competing with folks who show up every DWE. This is more a "don't burn bridges, piss off people senior to you, and cause angry phone calls to your TRUIC" kind of situation. Unless his TRUIC CO already bailed on writing his FITREP . . .

 

[snake020]

Not trying to sound flippant, just a couple of direct questions-

Are you okay with being fitrep fodder for the unit?
Shouldn't be getting a FITREP from them? My position is this takes away for the real work I do to support my CAO unit where we've had significant wardroom and CPO mess manning gaps.

Can you get a reserve retirement at your current paygrade?
Sure, maybe this is why I'm more ? tolerant

As @nittany03 just asked, is this a hill you're willing to die on?
Depends on the risk/reward, but so far it's sounding like not a fight worth picking.

 

[ABMD]

My unit has the exact opposite issue, but it's entirely the enlisted that have the issues. They say they want to come quarterly on IDTT, but when we put in the orders...crickets. I'd say 90% of our members are CAI, so quarterly's are the only way we can actually get eyes on people. The OSO actually said they would give us (OPS O) IDTT orders to go to their respective NOSCs to track them down. All the O's are listed as Local w/waiver and we have guys travel as far as TX to VA Beach on their own dime as JOs. I'd say, if they're paying your way what's the harm in going other than the headache of travelling.

 

[nittany03]

My unit has the exact opposite issue, but it's entirely the enlisted that have the issues. They say they want to come quarterly on IDTT, but when we put in the orders...crickets. I'd say 90% of our members are CAI, so quarterly's are the only way we can actually get eyes on people. The OSO actually said they would give us (OPS O) IDTT orders to go to their respective NOSCs to track them down. All the O's are listed as Local w/waiver and we have guys travel as far as TX to VA Beach on their own dime as JOs. I'd say, if they're paying your way what's the harm in going other than the headache of travelling.

YHGTBFSM . . . that's hilarious. I wish I had your OSO, just from the sense of humor aspect . . . or are they really a dick, and just being dickish to the CAI in this case?

We don't have as many now, but for awhile, our main problem was CNRFC giving us way too many CAI khaki. You have to actually run the unit, you know. The only people we had as local with waiver are me (Seattle area) and my recently departed CO. A few folks are from NorCal, but he did DFW to San Diego . . . which is nuts, but he is/was an airline guy holding a line. SEA to SAN is my limit; I want to bank some drill pay, thankyouveddymuch.

 

[snake020]

I'd say 90% of our members are CAI, so quarterly's are the only way we can actually get eyes on people.

If I'm proactively meeting my GMTs, medical readiness, and PRT, and never red on your Excel sheets, why would you need eyes on me?

I'd say, if they're paying your way what's the harm in going other than the headache of travelling.

That IS the headache. Each way is 10-12 hours of traveling, and for a f***ing drill weekend. Maybe I could understand better if it were combined with AT (which I have inquired about,) but if this is no different than any other drill weekend, I fail to see any value in this exercise.

 

[nittany03]

That IS the headache. Each way is 10-12 hours of traveling, and for a f***ing drill weekend.

I think @ABMD was talking about his own unit. I think we can all agree that cross-country CAI assignments are pants-on-head stupid if you're not a flex drill unit. I mean, I have a VP at my company who lives in Pioneer Square and drills in Hampton Roads, but as flex-drill, so he's out there for a week or two at a time. Single weekends coast-to-coast are insane.

Edit:

If I'm proactively meeting my GMTs, medical readiness, and PRT, and never red on your Excel sheets, why would you need eyes on me?

Well, in a perfect world, the unit should be scheduling training so they can actually use you when the balloon goes up. Mine is doing a mass shipboard firefighting re-hack this spring for local and CAI. We've finally gotten sick of just what you said, having CAI come out and drink coffee, so we're trying to put together an LRTP and do productive shit.

 

[Jim123]

I can't believe I forgot that the TRUIC CO writes paper on CAI (or maybe that's a good sign of my long term mental health that I'm forgetting this stuff). That was either a policy change or a clarification c2015~17.

Thanks for the technical correction.

 

[Gatordev]

I really have no interest in reading the Force policy at this point, so like Jim, my info is 18 months old, but...

Historically, requiring CAI to show up once a quarter, which was completely legal and recommended, was a way to cull the CAI personnel. It was an effective tool for a system that otherwise can't get rid of a typical CAI SELRES that does nothing for the unit. I'm not saying that's you, snake, but generally speaking, having CAI take up billets was a huge pain when you may have had local personnel who were trying to get in. Since you're past the 90 days, the CO can't boot you with a local SELRES either.

 

[snake020]

I really have no interest in reading the Force policy at this point, so like Jim, my info is 18 months old, but...

Historically, requiring CAI to show up once a quarter, which was completely legal and recommended, was a way to cull the CAI personnel. It was an effective tool for a system that otherwise can't get rid of a typical CAI SELRES that does nothing for the unit. I'm not saying that's you, snake, but generally speaking, having CAI take up billets was a huge pain when you may have had local personnel who were trying to get in. Since you're past the 90 days, the CO can't boot you with a local SELRES either.

I can understand that position, but my CAO unit has CAI folks as well. It may not be a wash for every unit, but is this a valid argument if CAI Sailors
"[do] nothing for the unit" yet when you bring them in you don't have anything for them besides the standard readiness/admin tasks?

Additionally, they still have unfilled billets advertised this cycle in JOAPPLY.

 

[taxi1]

We used CAI/CAO as a way to have selres get paid to travel to drill which is A Good Thing in my book. Quarterly drills, but understood the CAI may not make all of them, but would stay for an extra day to work with the fleet customer when they did. Maximize the work/travel ratio. Also try to chain the AT too.

We'd prep PIMs or concurrent reports on the CAI if they were truly part of the team and not just temp placeholders.

 

[Gatordev]

I can understand that position, but my CAO unit has CAI folks as well. It may not be a wash for every unit, but is this a valid argument if CAI Sailors
"[do] nothing for the unit" yet when you bring them in you don't have anything for them besides the standard readiness/admin tasks?

Nothing about Cross-Assigned is good for anyone, except for Big Navy. If you want someone to bitch about Cross-Assigned with, I'll be at the bar.