Is being a Commercial Airline Pilot a good job

[TransvestFO]

I have seen many entries about the perilous future of the airline industry. I have not seen much on just what it is like to be an ailine pilot. I would like to know more about the day-to-day stuff; how many days per month on the road, which companies offer what benefits (if any), how many years of Christmas mornings do I miss before I get enough seniority to stay home, interview questions and techniques, should I learn Spanish, is it better to fly for FedEx or UPS than SWA/Jet Blue. Is this type of info out there?

 

[A4sForever]

.... Is being a Commercial Airline Pilot a good job .... ???

YES !!! Is it as good as it was 5 year ago ... ??? NO !!! Will it get better in the future ... ??? YES !!! As long as people want to fly. Was it this bad before .... ??? YES !!! Remember the 30's, 60's, late 80's, 2000's .... ??? It goes in cycles like anything else...

Would I do it again .... ??? If I wasn't born independently wealthy .... probably ..... :captain_1

 

[phrogpilot73]

YES !!! Is it as good as it was 5 year ago ... ??? NO !!! Will it get better in the future ... ??? YES !!! As long as people want to fly. Was it this bad before .... ??? YES !!! Remember the 30's, 60's, late 80's, 2000's .... ??? It goes in cycles like anything else...

Would I do it again .... ??? If I wasn't born independently wealthy .... probably ..... :captain_1

Perhaps you can answer a question I've always wondered. I don't know if you went VFR direct to the big boys, or started in the regionals. But it seems to me that the little regional jets might be more fun to fly. I've heard that if you stick around the regionals, you can make a career out of it...

 

[A4sForever]

Perhaps you can answer a question I've always wondered. I don't know if you went VFR direct to the big boys, or started in the regionals. But it seems to me that the little regional jets might be more fun to fly. I've heard that if you stick around the regionals, you can make a career out of it...

I don't know if this will be your answer, but naaaaaaaah .... I went straight to the Big Boys ... nearly everyone did back then ... there was little, if any "regional" flying worth considering. As a former military pilot, you didn't have to consider "regionals" --- it was Delta, PanAm, American, Eastern, Northwest, Braniff, Continental, Western, National, Hughes AirWest, so on and so forth. Hmmm .... some of those names are missing today. But then ... the airlines all started their hub and spoke systems and someone had to do the "spokes" cheaper and smaller which usually turned out to be the "regionals". Presto !!! Low(er) cost carriers were born before we knew what they were and we haven't looked back.

Perhaps some others could speak better to the "quality of life" issues in the regionals, but basically, you work longer hours for relatively lower pay in smaller equipment going into smaller markets than you might in what you call the "Big Boys". It's not what you thought being an "airline pilot" was going to be. Most "small boys" I know personally took the jobs because that was all that was available --- now we are in a seemingly never ending downward spiral to see who can fly more for less money. It's going to have an effect on your potential career and pocketbook.

The closest thing left to "traditional" airline flying is in the international arena. I went international early and stayed ... it may hard on the body and sleep patterns, but I would not trade it for domestic flying --- I like it. :captain_1 You can certainly make a career out of the regionals today --- and you might have to if present trends continue for another 3-5 years. I wouldn't, but it's easy for me to say now that I'm close to retirement. Really, though, I don't think I would --- I'd go for 20-30 years with Uncle and then do something else, hopefully that I would enjoy.

The only thing about that plan is that I have more $$$ in the bank, better vehicle(s), a better house, more toys, and a better lookin' wife than all the retired O-6 and Flag guys I know .... I suppose there's a lesson in there somewhere. .... I've been lucky.

 

[phrogpilot73]

The only thing about that plan is that I have more $$$ in the bank, better vehicle(s), a better house, more toys, and a better lookin' wife than all the retired O-6 and Flag guys I know .... I suppose there's a lesson in there somewhere. .... I've been lucky.

I'm a single Marine Capt, making flight pay... I have all of the above (minus the wife)

 

[eddie]

I'm a single Marine Capt, making flight pay... I have all of the above (minus the wife)

I would assume that would make a world of difference, but any specifics as to how you do it would still be greatly appreciated.

 

[A4sForever]

Read "Flying the Line" by George Hopkins if you really wanna get a feel for commercial (121) flying... a must for anyone thinking about it.......Regional airlines really didn't start exploding until Canadair came out with the CRJ's back in the late 90's ........At that stage in your career it's all about seniority and your quality of life when you're not working, flying less and making more. Am I wrong here A4's?

Hopkins' book is a good read for perspective on and history of the U.S. commercial airline industry.

The CRJ was, in my opinion, the answer to the question posed by the airline managements, to wit : how do we service these smaller markets without using a DC-9 or a B737 and staff it with pilots to whom we can pay below market wages ??? It worked .... and I think your overall call in the post is right on.

....it's 70% luck, 20% timing, and 10% luck.....

I might take slight exception here, however. I would suggest that getting on with the majors involved ... 45% luck, 45% timing (is that really "luck" by another name???) .... and 10% good looks.

 

[eddie]

Every time I see this thread title, I read "Is being a Comissioned Airline Pilot a Good Job." It is driving me NUTS!

 

[A4sForever]

Don't forget the "who you know" factor.

that probably factors in less than is popularly believed ... in my case, I "knew" no one. I got hired by 6 majors spanning a 4 year period and went to work for three of them. I didn't know a soul that counted or could use their "influence" to get me hired ....

O.K. ... so let's make it 45% luck, 40% timing (luck?) , 3% "who you know", and 12 % good looks.

 

[NavyLonghorn]

Conversation with father who is an airline pilot:

Me: "Dad, do you like your job?"

Dad: "I like the paycheck."

 

[HAL Pilot]

Hell just about everyone I know working for a 121 carrier got their job because of refferals. FedEx forget it without one...

That's true right now when hiring is limited, but during the 1998-2001 hiring boom, it was definitely not the case (except for maybe Hawaiian and Aloha, but they are really small carriers).

Perhaps you can answer a question I've always wondered. I don't know if you went VFR direct to the big boys, or started in the regionals. But it seems to me that the little regional jets might be more fun to fly. I've heard that if you stick around the regionals, you can make a career out of it...

As a retired NFO, I did not go VFR direct to a major (if you consider Hawaiian a major - it's really a national). I flew regional before my furlough and I am again now.

First year pay at my regional was a considerable $14k in 1999. It's about $18k there now. As a Captain in a 19 seat turboprop, I am making about $45k on 4th year pay. To get this high salary, I work 5 days a week with average 12 to 14 hours of duty each day. I am one of the highest paid 19 seat 121 pilots in the industry. Jet guys and larger turboprop guys can make more.

At Hawaiian as a 2nd year DC-10 Second Officer (FE), I made $55k at my minimum guarantee working 12 days a month with a 10-12 hour duty day. If I wanted to push it, I could have worked 8 days a month with 16 hour duty days flying HNL-LAX-HNL turns and made max pay - about an additional 12K per year.

After 15 years, you can make $100k at a regional and have a QOL. But you will not have any retirement (debatable if you will in the future at a major). But until you upgrade to Captain, count on making $18k (first year) to about $32k (max at best regional) per year as an FO. Upgrade to Captain can be anywhere from 2-3 years to 9-10 years depending on the regional. You can count on making $85-90k in the 3rd or 4th year as an FO at a major and at least $50k in the 2nd. Hawaiian FO pay is $70k for 2nd year (the $55k was as an FE not FO. The DC-10s are gone so all pilots are now FOs.) and $100k by year 4. FOs top out in the 12th year at $125k and Captains at $185k).

Majors also have considerably better work rules and protections.

So yes a regional can be a career position, but a lower paying harder working career.

Is it a good job? It an okay job at a regional but it was a great job at Hawaiian. It will be a great job again. And it sure the hell beats an office no matter what level you fly at.

 

[Physicx]

Wow this is definitly a different picture then flightinfo. But flightinfo shouldn't be taken seriously. You guys seem more realistic.

 

[A4sForever]

Hell just about everyone I know working for a 121 carrier got their job because of refferals. FedEx forget it without one...

I know of one airline where pilot referrals were the kiss of death ... management hated pilots to such a degree that a pilot referral would occasionally work against the applicant. Other airlines would refuse to hire a son or daughter of a current employee. These things were not unusual; they were the norm.

In any case, let me go way out on a limb and state unequivocally that in the 1978-85 time frame, I personally cannot remember one applicant who got a job based on "recommendations" ... they just didn't matter that much. I submit my own history as verification of this contention. You had to have hours, tickets, timing, luck, and be extremely good lookin' (as mentioned above ). Recommendations were nice to flesh out the package, but they didn't count -- unless two candidates were tied --- then the referral could sway the final decision. I interviewed new-hire candidates for two Part 121 majors (majors --- what a stupid term --- but it's the term used today) and "who you know" referrals didn't factor into the decision -- unless there was a "tie".

Bottom line --- if the guy was good: hire him. If not: don't .... I'm not making this up as I go along, you know.

Various smaller airlines were different with regard to referrals and some placed more weight on them. For example: Alaska, PSA, Southwest, Hughes, Southern, North Central, and Frontier to name a few. Referrals and their relative weight in the hiring process changes just as the times and the hiring cadre changes --- and of course, the EEOC laws.

 

[HAL Pilot]

HALpilot said he works 5 days a week and about 12 hours a day...that seems like a lot compared to the glamorous life I was led to believe (3-4 work days a week so on so forth) Just curious.

That's because I am currently at a bottom-feeder regional while awaiting recall to Hawaiian. 12 to 14 hour duty days are common. In that 12 to 14 hours, I will fly 4 to 8 hours. Even though my airline is a FAR 121 carrier, due to the size of aircraft I am flying, I can fly 120 hours a month and 1200 hours a year. I usually hit around 100 hours a month. Next month I am lucky, my seniority is finally letting me get a 4 on / 3 off schedule. (Mefesto is right about the 100/1000 hour limits for most 121 carriers and larger aircraft.)

I also said when I was at Hawaiian, I worked 8 to 12 days a month, with a lot shorter duty days and for a lot more money. THAT was the glamourous life. Hopefully I'll get back there soon.

If the majors are hiring, a military fixed-wing pilot has an excellent chance to go straight to a major and skip the regionals. Since 9/11/2001 this has been hard because very few majors have been hiring. But the regionals have been hiring in droves. It is starting to open up again at the majors. I know quite a few military guys going straight to FedEx, UPS, Jet Blue and Southwest. America West was hiring but now quit due to their merger with US Airways. Contenential is starting to hire. The only thing I see that might hold a mailitary pilot back is that they do not seem to be getting out with as many hours as they used to. I'm not sure how this will play out in the hiring game.

 

[wink]

Is it a good job? If I made as much money as my in laws think I do, if I had as much time off as my neighbors think I do and I had dates with gorgeous flight attendants on every trip like my wife thinks I do, then it would be a great job!